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Old 11-12-2012, 06:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Have 600 and 1000 sport-bike designs peaked?

I dunno; looking at the fantastic supersports motorcycles available today it seems that the 4-stroke capabilities may have pretty well 'peaked'. Really, if a motorcycle weighs near 400 lbs gassed up, accelerates like a rocket, and handles like it is on rails, where the hell do you go from here? Hp beyond 150 needs complicated electronics to tame it down, and once the footpegs hit the pavement that is as far as you can go. Other than a few minor tweaks, there are no huge 'leaps' to be had any more cos 4-stroke sport-bikes have evolved to perfection and we are truly spoiled. Saying one 1000cc sport-bike is 'better' than another one is almost laughable these days.
-Now imagine if a motorcycle manufacturer brings out a 3-cylinder direct-injected (to meet emissions) 750 cc 2-stroke with 150 hp in a bike weighing 350 lbs gassed up, well THAT would be the leap I am looking for in a pure sport-bike. A cheaper price and no valve-train to adjust is a bonus. Oh yeah, if a battery is invented that is light, holds a big charge, and re-charges quickly, then both cars and motorcycles will leap in a new direction (and we will send the oil sheiks back to their tents).

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Old 11-12-2012, 09:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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People have been saying stuff like this since, oh, about 1906. Technology will continue to advance.

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Old 11-13-2012, 01:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The nineties were full of bikes that looked the same and everyone thought it couldn't get any better. Then, BOOM. The CBR929 comes out and we see a movement to liter bikes and an amazing improvement in bike technology. They will continue to change and for the better. (Except for maybe looks as that is highly objective.)
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt83 View Post
The nineties were full of bikes that looked the same and everyone thought it couldn't get any better. Then, BOOM. The CBR900RR comes out and we see a movement to liter bikes and an amazing improvement in bike technology. They will continue to change and for the better. (Except for maybe looks as that is highly objective.)
Fixed
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I can think of a lot of directions they could go. Most would involve drastically reworking the position of the rider, to lower CM and improve the grotesque aerodynamics. This would *probably* involve a significantly longer wheelbase for packaging reasons, so the challenges of getting nimbleness back in the steering would be significant. And for street use some kind of gyro or at least deployable sidestand would probably be needed for stability when stopping. Hopefully this would go along with developing suspension that is more sophisticated than the telescopic fork, and more consistent than the present dynamic transition between suspension components and frame as the bike leans. More wheelbase and lower CM would also allow better acceleration and braking, both of which are largely chassis-limited right now.

I agree that given the current design model, they've optimized it pretty well. But there are lots of fundamental improvements to be made if/when it becomes economically feasible to really pull out a blank sheet of paper.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:41 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What is limited the design of engines today are the rules imposed by the racing games. The companies are making engine designs that meet the rules, and then passing the tech down to the street bike.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt83 View Post
The nineties were full of bikes that looked the same and everyone thought it couldn't get any better. Then, BOOM. The CBR929 comes out and we see a movement to liter bikes and an amazing improvement in bike technology. They will continue to change and for the better. (Except for maybe looks as that is highly objective.)
Quote:
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Fixed


Boom GPZ 900, boom CB 750, boom triumph T120, boom the squariel, boom brough superior.. The booms go back a long way and will keep coming.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:02 AM   #9 (permalink)
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4 strokes could get a lot lighter, but you would run into the same problems MX dirt bikes have. Motors with life spans and maintenance intervals measured in hours. Piss on that. Sucks on dirt bikes (why I own a 2 stroke), would suck even more on a street bike.

I do agree that direct injection 2 strokes could advance sport bikes far beyond their current limitations in both power and weight. Will NEVER happen though until they are allowed in the most popular race classes... but if that were to happen they would find a way to gimp them until they were equal to the 4 strokes, and that gimped compromise is what we could get. If they gimp them on CCs that will mean they have to be high strung, gutless, and short lived to make the same power as their four stroke counterparts, that isn't desirable on the street. Just pray that if they do allow them and they do gimp them, that for once they think of the street rider and gimp them in some category other than CCs
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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why change?

the companies are making relative incremental changes every year, and make boat loads of cash on the same old designs.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:52 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Make a bike that even a rookie can ride around a track like rossi. The technology that bikes will have in the future will make them as safe as cars in certain situation. Traction control and ABS is a great start. Imagine getting your knee down and knowing that the bike is designed to stay up as long as the road conditions are decent. That, I believe, is the future of sport bikes.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markk9 View Post
What is limited the design of engines today are the rules imposed by the racing games. The companies are making engine designs that meet the rules, and then passing the tech down to the street bike.
…and due to the economy, the rules are continuously being tightened to restrict new development in favor of cost savings.

I think the economy and slow sales are creating a false plateau in development. When the big news for 2013 is new headlights on a six year old bike, things are going to feel like they are peaking. Now the big four is somewhat stuck in a loop, why buy a new bike that looks and rides exactly like this 4 year old used bike for half the cost, but the lack of new bike sales is slowing new model development.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boner View Post
…and due to the economy, the rules are continuously being tightened to restrict new development in favor of cost savings.

I think the economy and slow sales are creating a false plateau in development. When the big news for 2013 is new headlights on a six year old bike, things are going to feel like they are peaking. Now the big four is somewhat stuck in a loop, why buy a new bike that looks and rides exactly like this 4 year old used bike for half the cost, but the lack of new bike sales is slowing new model development.
Except for Kawasaki, they seem to be on top of the Big 4 in that regard. Honda may have the profit, but Kawi has the right mentality in my books. Hell if they was to even do a "take one for the team" and just cut the prices of their new bikes in half, market sales would increase dramatically. Not sure if it would be any different keeping the prices where they are.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The next BOOM for me is going to I suspect be this ...




I do hope they keep with the KTM tradition of all the power straight away, no lag no need to spin it up to some revs for something to happen . Traction breaking wheelieee torques from 1000rpm .
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequentialshift View Post
The next BOOM for me is going to I suspect be this ...

I do hope they keep with the KTM tradition of all the power straight away, no lag no need to spin it up to some revs for something to happen . Traction breaking wheelieee torques from 1000rpm .
Oh lawd, I need a better job ASAP.
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