Have 600 and 1000 sport-bike designs peaked? - Page 4 - Sportbikes.net
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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:23 PM
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Within a few years batteries will be good enough that electric will be a valid option. Batteries that do 300+ miles and charge in the time it takes you to use the restroom and have a meal. Meanwhile enough torque that it takes a computer working overtime to keep the front wheel on the ground and the back wheel not spinning all the way in to the triple digits on a bike that never needs anything more than tires and chains.

I like gasoline motors, but once batteries reach a certain point, electric will be clearly superior.
Um, I doubt that VERY much. Batteries need to improve by an order of magnitude to be competitive with chemical storage, AND become quickly rechargeable. I don't think that's even theoretically possible.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:43 PM
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They haven't peaked at all. They are slowly steadily getting better.

Traction control, Slipper clutch, Steering dampers, ABS, BPF, Adjustable maps... most of these were not available as a default option before 2006. Now most new bikes have them, or at least offer the option.

Electric motorcyle technology hasn't even hit the normal streetbike market yet. Only a few small companies are offering them. Once there is a breakthrough in that field, we will see more advancements in hybrid and full electric bikes that are lightweight and equally powerful than their internal combustion counterparts.

The rest of the technology just has to catch up.

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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:48 PM
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Um, I doubt that VERY much. Batteries need to improve by an order of magnitude to be competitive with chemical storage, AND become quickly rechargeable. I don't think that's even theoretically possible.

PhilB
Agreed.

but there are alternatives and solutions to the downfalls of battery/electric systems.

Coming from an engineering background, I've always thought manufacturers could look into solar power, regenerative braking, etc in addition to more efficient batteries.

The problem with that is it has drawbacks that also need to be solved. Added weight, cost, and overall efficiency are the biggest disadvantages. That, and nothing really compares to the power of combustion engines and the sweet sound of the motor and exhaust.

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 09:10 AM
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The crux issue of electric is energy density of the batteries. There is more energy in a few gallons of gas than can reasonably be carried in batteries on a motorcycle. Power output at the wheel is not an issue. Very small motors are capable of more output than the rider can manage currently.

It's the accurate control that will be the advantage. It will be so much simpler to manage traction, wheelie control and output that for racing applications the throttle could practically be an on/off switch. All the ride would have to do is point the bike and the system could manage the power to the limit of tire adhesion. That is more attainable than with a combustion engine.

Range will come down to accepting performance limits and bikes are inherently not aerodynamic so cruising range will always be a challenge.

To the OP, I asked this same question when the 93' CBR900rr and again when 99' R1 came out and look where we are now. Today I wish for an SV650 engine with premium suspension and chassis. We've had more power than we can use for decades now.
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 09:26 AM
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Coming from an engineering background, I've always thought manufacturers could look into solar power, regenerative braking, etc in addition to more efficient batteries.t.

Solar - far too weak to make a difference. Cover the roof of a Prius and put in full sun all day, you've got enough juice to run the stereo for a short time. Even if you had magical, 100% efficient cells, there isn't enough power there to do a lot. Plus, on a bike, where would you even put the cells?


Regenerative braking - this would rely on the back wheel, so the more you have, the more stability and traction issues you have. Plus, you'll never get back as much as you put in, let alone more. Sure, it will extend the range some, but not big time.

Swappable standardized battery packs available everywhere could work, but what happens when you get a bad pack? Who pays?

Rapid recharge nanocells are in the labs, they hold promise

Hydrogen would work, but it's just a battery itself. Right now it's made from natural gas, and it takes more energy to make than it returns. When we finally get fusion power, you crack sea water and use the hydrogen as a battery - it carries the reactor's power with you

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post #51 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 10:38 AM
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I dunno; looking at the fantastic supersports motorcycles available today it seems that the 4-stroke capabilities may have pretty well 'peaked'. Really, if a motorcycle weighs near 400 lbs gassed up, accelerates like a rocket, and handles like it is on rails, where the hell do you go from here? Hp beyond 150 needs complicated electronics to tame it down, and once the footpegs hit the pavement that is as far as you can go. Other than a few minor tweaks, there are no huge 'leaps' to be had any more cos 4-stroke sport-bikes have evolved to perfection and we are truly spoiled. Saying one 1000cc sport-bike is 'better' than another one is almost laughable these days.
-Now imagine if a motorcycle manufacturer brings out a 3-cylinder direct-injected (to meet emissions) 750 cc 2-stroke with 150 hp in a bike weighing 350 lbs gassed up, well THAT would be the leap I am looking for in a pure sport-bike. A cheaper price and no valve-train to adjust is a bonus. Oh yeah, if a battery is invented that is light, holds a big charge, and re-charges quickly, then both cars and motorcycles will leap in a new direction (and we will send the oil sheiks back to their tents).
A 750cc 2-stroke now a days...... One could only wish. We are staying with 4-stroke now b/c it is easy for everyone in general, but stil...... how cool would that be?
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post #52 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:16 PM
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Last edited by F4sSprintST; 11-15-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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post #53 of 53 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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Its a shame BMW bought up the rights to FFEs. That's where the next frontier is.You could have a front end that would stabilize under braking, never headshake but still have response + feel. And then a rear end that, if you wanted it to, would keep the front end down under full power. Etc. Forks are good but they're at the end of their line.
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