BMW HP4; can the Japanese compete? - Sportbikes.net
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post #1 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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BMW HP4; can the Japanese compete?

The Japanese motorcycle industry always used to be at the cutting edge of motorcycle design, but in the last 10 yrs the Europeans are giving serious competition. Holy crap, that new BMW HP4 is absolutely stunning both in looks and technology. It just blows the Japanese super-sports into the weeds. How the hell can they out-do this thing?!
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post #2 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 08:11 PM
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Yes, they can


May not surpass it, but should be able to be competitive
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post #3 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 08:20 PM
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Give it time.

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post #4 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 08:40 PM
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Japan's economy sucks. Bike sales are way down. The Japanese manufacturers have cut way back on updates because of this. They will come back.

Even though the European economies suck, BMW, Triumph and Ducati are still selling well. They are still updating their bikes and growing their markets.

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post #5 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 09:01 PM
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The new HP4, the lightest 4-cylinder supersports bike in its class, will have a base Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of $19,990.
I'd say the Japanese already have them beat by several thousand dollars. Since most bikes nowadays are so far beyond the average riders skillset to begin with, I'd say that the big 4 are in no danger of losing all their sales to the europeans based on price alone.
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post #6 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stnkbg1 View Post
I'd say the Japanese already have them beat by several thousand dollars. Since most bikes nowadays are so far beyond the average riders skillset to begin with, I'd say that the big 4 are in no danger of losing all their sales to the europeans based on price alone.
Better do some reading. All three of them have been taking market share from the Japanese. They're worried.
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post #7 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stnkbg1 View Post
I'd say the Japanese already have them beat by several thousand dollars. Since most bikes nowadays are so far beyond the average riders skillset to begin with, I'd say that the big 4 are in no danger of losing all their sales to the europeans based on price alone.
That's only what, 3000-4000 more than a Japanese bike? For what comes on the HP4 I'd have no problem forking out the extra cash for it.


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post #8 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-19-2012, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthonyd5189 View Post
That's only what, 3000-4000 more than a Japanese bike? For what comes on the HP4 I'd have no problem forking out the extra cash for it.

I really, really wish people would get over this perception that BMWs are thousands of dollars more for equivalent bikes.

Hoped that when the S1000RR came out people would get a clue, but looking up prices and comparing warranties and features seems to be too much for them.

Sure. BMWs cost thousands of dollars more than Japanese bikes. Don't even consider them. Have a nice day.

KeS
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post #9 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 01:49 AM
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That's the thing though, the average idiot that buys a sportbike (read: not the actually intelligent riders that generally populate this site) look at 2 sport bikes and see essentially the same thing. They dont know why brembo brakes and Ohlins suspension makes one better than the other. They dont know WTF all the crazy alphabet soup abbreviations mean, or what the systems they refer to do. All they know is that both bikes go fast and one is cheaper than the other by a not unsubstantial sum.

Yes, the europeans have been stealing some market share, but IMHO it's mainly those people who actually know something about bikes, and unfortunately those people are not the majority of bike buyers. I'm not capping on the BMW or trying to say you dont get something for the extra money. I'm just saying, there are a LOT of people out there that will buy the cheaper bike, and just as many that can qualify for financing on the cheaper bike, but not the beemer.
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post #10 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stnkbg1 View Post
That's the thing though, the average idiot that buys a sportbike (read: not the actually intelligent riders that generally populate this site) look at 2 sport bikes and see essentially the same thing. They dont know why brembo brakes and Ohlins suspension makes one better than the other. They dont know WTF all the crazy alphabet soup abbreviations mean, or what the systems they refer to do. All they know is that both bikes go fast and one is cheaper than the other by a not unsubstantial sum.

Yes, the europeans have been stealing some market share, but IMHO it's mainly those people who actually know something about bikes, and unfortunately those people are not the majority of bike buyers. I'm not capping on the BMW or trying to say you dont get something for the extra money. I'm just saying, there are a LOT of people out there that will buy the cheaper bike, and just as many that can qualify for financing on the cheaper bike, but not the beemer.
I don't even think they look at 2 bikes. So long as its a GIXXER!

I'd buy an S1000RR/HP4 in a heart beat if I had the means or was upgrading. Like KeS stated, I know there isn't too much of a price difference. The thing is most sportbike riders are too concerned with how many CC it is than anything else.

I've had a lot of experience with German cars like BMW and Mercedes and I know for a fact that you get what you pay for. Not to say tha tthere is anything wrong with other manufacturers.

In motorcycle industry, we are dealing with a niche/limited segment and there is only so much market share out there. I find it to be great news that companies like BMW, Triumph etc are pressuring the Japanese manufacturers. Like they say, Competition is good for the US, the consumer/customer.

Last edited by Razzy; 10-20-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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post #11 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stnkbg1 View Post
That's the thing though, the average idiot that buys a sportbike (read: not the actually intelligent riders that generally populate this site) look at 2 sport bikes and see essentially the same thing. They dont know why brembo brakes and Ohlins suspension makes one better than the other. They dont know WTF all the crazy alphabet soup abbreviations mean, or what the systems they refer to do. All they know is that both bikes go fast and one is cheaper than the other by a not unsubstantial sum.

Yes, the europeans have been stealing some market share, but IMHO it's mainly those people who actually know something about bikes, and unfortunately those people are not the majority of bike buyers. I'm not capping on the BMW or trying to say you dont get something for the extra money. I'm just saying, there are a LOT of people out there that will buy the cheaper bike, and just as many that can qualify for financing on the cheaper bike, but not the beemer.
2013 BMW S1000RR base MSRP - $15,050
w/ABS and traction control - $15,545
(3 yr unlimited mileage warranty)

2013 Kawasaki ZX-10R base MSRP (includes traction control) - $14,299
w/ABS - $15,299
(1 yr warranty)

2013 Yamaha YZF-R1 base MSRP (includes traction control) - $14,290
(1 yr warranty)

The other Japanese manufacturers haven't released their 2013 pricing yet.

KeS

PS - I definitely think the Japanese can compete, they just need to do the investment. BMW had the advantage of starting with a clean sheet of paper.

PPS - I don't think the riders who generally populate this site are especially intelligent.

Last edited by kevin_stevens; 10-20-2012 at 02:32 AM.
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post #12 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_stevens View Post
2013 BMW HP4 base MSRP - $19,990
standard package - $20,525
Premium package - $24,995


2013 BMW S1000RR base MSRP - $15,050
w/ABS and traction control - $15,545
(3 yr unlimited mileage warranty)

2013 Kawasaki ZX-10R base MSRP (includes traction control) - $14,299
w/ABS - $15,299
(1 yr warranty)

2013 Yamaha YZF-R1 base MSRP (includes traction control) - $14,290
(1 yr warranty)

The other Japanese manufacturers haven't released their 2013 pricing yet.

KeS

PS - I definitely think the Japanese can compete, they just need to do the investment. BMW had the advantage of starting with a clean sheet of paper.

PPS - I don't think the riders who generally populate this site are especially intelligent.
Just throwing that out there, just because this what the thread is about, the HP4. Alot of bike for $25k though.

And no, I don't think the Japanese can compete. At least for now.
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post #13 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Shamrock627 View Post
Just throwing that out there, just because this what the thread is about, the HP4. Alot of bike for $25k though.

And no, I don't think the Japanese can compete. At least for now.
(shrug)

I prefer comparing apples to apples.

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post #14 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 07:19 AM
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post #15 of 95 (permalink) Old 10-20-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne's Striple View Post
The Japanese motorcycle industry always used to be at the cutting edge of motorcycle design, but in the last 10 yrs the Europeans are giving serious competition. Holy crap, that new BMW HP4 is absolutely stunning both in looks and technology. It just blows the Japanese super-sports into the weeds. How the hell can they out-do this thing?!
As has been stated it's not a Gixxer. Also as has been stated the liter bike owners that aren't on this site generally aren't too bright. I've only been to one bike night this year, but just listening to these fucktards talk to each other is just as painful as listening to the cruiser crowd, especially Harley riders, about 'dem crayzee spurtbykes!' My GOD the shit people say...

I will say that it would be nice to have the Japanese offer SE versions of bikes like BMW, Aprillia, Ducati and Triumph do. I'll never buy a new bike, so it doesn't effect me, but it would be nice. Right now the Europeans are beating that ass, except for maybe Kawasaki, the only Japanese motorcycle company that's actually TRYING. (Though, Honda and Yamaha are beginning to stir. Suzuki is in REM sleep.)
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