BMW HP4; can the Japanese compete?

[Shaman]

FYI, I see a load of S1000RRs and RSV4s (and RC8s, and Panigales!) at the track. People who have the money are definitely buying them for the purpose they were built.

[Süsser Tod]

Originally Posted by Shaman

FYI, I see a load of S1000RRs and RSV4s (and RC8s, and Panigales!) at the track. People who have the money are definitely buying them for the purpose they were built.

Some of them, but far from "most" of them.

[kevin_stevens]

Originally Posted by Shaman

FYI, I see a load of S1000RRs and RSV4s (and RC8s, and Panigales!) at the track. People who have the money are definitely buying them for the purpose they were built.

The purpose for which they were built is to be sold. What happens to them after that is of only anecdotal interest.

KeS

[ANORXIC'51]

Up here there are far more of the higher end bikes regulated to street/show duty than there are at the track. Only one 1199 and RSV4 are regulars. Quite a few S1000RRs, a couple of RC8s, and a handful of 848/1x98s. Haven't seen an MV F4 at one of our tds yet.

Not that mine is high end by stretch, but it's killing me to not be bringing the 848 to Barber next weekend. We'll see how I feel about the CBR...

[s1sport]

Personally I think the S1000RR is seriously over hyped, I found the Fireblade a much more comfortable usable street bike which has more power you'll ever need. If you are a win on Sunday buy on Monday type maybe the BMW wins, but as a package the Fireblade is "thousands cheaper".

Also I'm not loving the idea of traction control becoming ubiquitous on motorcycles. You see it in cars today that half of the performance cars have non-defeat-able traction control and it seriously saps their character and fun to drive factor. The horsepower races have made some of the newer bikes so powerful they aren't even any fun to ride without traction control turned on (ZX10 comes to mind). The S1000RR isn't that way but if it does get any more powerful it might be. BMW was smart to keep the HP4 at the same power level.

To answer the original question, yes, the Japanese can compete. None of them have put serious investments into any of their bikes since the recession - check out a Yen to Dollar graph sometime - their exports are getting slaughtered by a strong currency. That has given the Europeans a chance to come in and steal some of the spotlight but I wouldn't expect it to last very long.

[F4sSprintST]

Originally Posted by s1sport

I found the Fireblade.

\


We can't buy Fireblades here in the States.


(what is it with you Honda guys? )

[kevin_stevens]

Originally Posted by s1sport

Personally I think the S1000RR is seriously over hyped, I found the Fireblade a much more comfortable usable street bike which has more power you'll ever need. If you are a win on Sunday buy on Monday type maybe the BMW wins, but as a package the Fireblade is "thousands cheaper".

No, it's not, or it certainly wasn't in 2010 when the BMW was introduced. I've debunked this myth already in this thread.

KeS

[kevin_stevens]

Originally Posted by s1sport

Also I'm not loving the idea of traction control becoming ubiquitous on motorcycles. You see it in cars today that half of the performance cars have non-defeat-able traction control and it seriously saps their character and fun to drive factor. The horsepower races have made some of the newer bikes so powerful they aren't even any fun to ride without traction control turned on (ZX10 comes to mind). The S1000RR isn't that way but if it does get any more powerful it might be. BMW was smart to keep the HP4 at the same power level.

More misinformation, you're on a roll. Please identify these performance cars with non-defeatable traction control, because until recently I was an autocross instructor and drove or rode with almost every performance car out there, and none come to mind.

KeS

[96SHOx]

Seems like everyone is just comparing specs and features on paper and completely disregarding everything else. Example, cbr1krr has no electronic wizards like the competition, and is no where near the most powerful. Yet it is usually the fastest around a track with a given rider. Spec and feature sheet wouldn't tell you that would it. Road feel, comfort, reliability, cost of ownership and rider satisfaction are other areas you're overlooking by just comparing listed features.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Motorcycle.com Free App

[maverick0716]

Originally Posted by F4sSprintST

\


We can't buy Fireblades here in the States.


(what is it with you Honda guys? )

The cbr 1000rr is still referred to by many to be a Fireblade. It's just a name give to the 900rr that has been adopted by newer versions of the bike.

[s1sport]

Originally Posted by 96SHOx

Seems like everyone is just comparing specs and features on paper and completely disregarding everything else. Example, cbr1krr has no electronic wizards like the competition, and is no where near the most powerful. Yet it is usually the fastest around a track with a given rider. Spec and feature sheet wouldn't tell you that would it. Road feel, comfort, reliability, cost of ownership and rider satisfaction are other areas you're overlooking by just comparing listed features.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Motorcycle.com Free App

Exactly, the CBR1K (which I called the Fireblade) is a better bike. No, it doesn't win every "magazine test" and might not take home trophies in professional racing much, but it's thousands less and performs better as street bike in almost every way.

Funny to me how the above S1K defenders can't deal with the fact that some people don't like the bike. It's just an opinion, get over it guys. I'm sure there are bikes you don't like which I do, choice in the marketplace is a good thing for that reason.

[kevinwilly]

Originally Posted by s1sport

Exactly, the CBR1K (which I called the Fireblade) is a better bike. No, it doesn't win every "magazine test" and might not take home trophies in professional racing much, but it's thousands less and performs better as street bike in almost every way.

Funny to me how the above S1K defenders can't deal with the fact that some people don't like the bike. It's just an opinion, get over it guys. I'm sure there are bikes you don't like which I do, choice in the marketplace is a good thing for that reason.

First, the bike is NOT thousands cheaper. For the last time. It's like 200 bucks cheaper. That's it.


And second- it doesn't perform better as a street bike. It's the same. Except maybe it fits you better. The BMW powerband is the same (or even better) than other bikes. It has better electronics. It comes down to seating position preferences.

Sure- some people don't like it. And some people don't like Hondas. Myself included.

But regardless of anything else- the BMW is enough better that if I was going to buy a new literbike, it'd be the BMW. Hands down. No fucking question.

[F4sSprintST]

Originally Posted by maverick0716

The cbr 1000rr is still referred to by many to be a Fireblade. It's just a name give to the 900rr that has been adopted by newer versions of the bike.

I know, but it's NOT THE FIREBLADE!!!


Morons in America like stupidfuck combinations of letters and numbers, not cool names now

[Shamrock627]

Originally Posted by kevinwilly

First, the bike is NOT thousands cheaper. For the last time. It's like 200 bucks cheaper. That's it.

First the CBR1000RR IS thousands cheaper. Remember, this thread is about the HP4, NOT the S1000RR.

[F4sSprintST]

Comparing the standard Honda to the HP4 is really apples to oranges. Add in some Ohlins for the Honda and it might be more fair.

But as stated before, take a look a the 2012 pricing, for only $250 more than the Honda, you've got TC and more.


(yes, this is MSRP, not actual sale prices)

$15,050 - 2013 MSRP (ABS) - BMW S1000RR - BMW Motorrad USA


$14,800 - 2012 CBR1000RR (ABS) - Build Your 2012 CBR1000RR - Honda Powersports