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General Sportbikes This area is for sport bike discussion in general. Topics that don't really belong anywhere else can go here. Questions can be answered and addressed to fully understand certain aspects of the sport. If your question is manufacturer specific please post it there.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:12 AM   735 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Short of what? The Ninja makes 2-3 more hp waaay up top where very few will ever ride it. Below peak the CBR makes better usable power.

Cylinder count? I'm still betting that a US version will be at least as powerful.
Very few will ride high up in the rev range? Who do you know that doesn't dance around in the power band of any bike when their trying to have a good time? The CBR doesn't even have a power band up high because it's a thumper.

Watch this video of the CBR getting pulled on a race track from sheer power.

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Old 10-10-2012, 01:47 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Those specs look pitiful. The 1997 Ninja 500 I learned on was about the same weight, but with more power and a top speed at least 10 mph higher. Maybe they engineered it with fuel economy in mind but the 50+ mpg I got on my Ninja was very satisfactory. Of course specs don't tell the whole story, but they are an important part of selling bikes, and personally I'm just not impressed.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:02 AM   #33 (permalink)
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They're killin' me with curiosity. I check back every so often to see what they've come up with but still no sportbikes. I think Kawi has everyone beat anyway. Still wanna see what Honda does also. Yamaha looks pretty unchanged.
My guess is, you'll see carry over GSXR's in all sizes on the webpage in February.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:34 AM   #34 (permalink)
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actually the gladius is still around. but it's strictly the "SFV650".... no "gladius" name anymore.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:53 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furad View Post
Very few will ride high up in the rev range? Who do you know that doesn't dance around in the power band of any bike when their trying to have a good time? The CBR doesn't even have a power band up high because it's a thumper.

Watch this video of the CBR getting pulled on a race track from sheer power.
You kind of answered your own question by using race track footage to support your point. The fraction of 250's that get ridden "hard" is tiny globally. Most customers are commuting and learning on bikes in this segment. The ones that do, only get ridden like that one day a week, the rest of the time they're commuting. CBR's are selling very well.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:39 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
You kind of answered your own question by using race track footage to support your point. The fraction of 250's that get ridden "hard" is tiny globally. Most customers are commuting and learning on bikes in this segment. The ones that do, only get ridden like that one day a week, the rest of the time they're commuting. CBR's are selling very well.
I don't know if you've ever ridden a 250 before, but I spent a year and almost 15,000 miles on one. I spent a LOT of time high in the rev range, including just commuting. Just doing the speed limit on the highway, you're fairly high up in the rev range. If you want to make a 'quick' pass you've got to downshift, and then you're solidly in the high rpm range. If I was out on a fun ride in the twisties, I was always high in the revs.

Here is a dyno chart from MotoUSA comparing the two bikes:



The Ninja takes over around 9k, which isn't all that high for these little bikes.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:59 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The cbr pulls a little better out of corners, is lighter and handles a little better . The ninja pulls a little bit on the straight.


They are still pretty competive on the race track.

Last edited by ZorroX; 10-10-2012 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #38 (permalink)
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The Ninja 300 is just too top end of the tach oriented for me. The dyno numbers smoke the Honda 250 in every way but on a butt dyno, I like my Honda more for the everyday stuff even normal freeway riding. There is just something about singles and twins and that fast torque hit that I enjoy more than a screamer.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:24 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
You kind of answered your own question by using race track footage to support your point. The fraction of 250's that get ridden "hard" is tiny globally. Most customers are commuting and learning on bikes in this segment. The ones that do, only get ridden like that one day a week, the rest of the time they're commuting. CBR's are selling very well.
On a 600 or 1000, you are breaking the law and blurring the scenery when you hit the peak horsepower. On a 250 you are passing, merging, getting out of the way, doing normal driving stuff. When I commute on my 250, I hit peak power dozens of times on my 20 minute commute, and find myself wishing it had more. If I had the honda that weighs 60lbs more and has 25% less power, that would suck lol.
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Last edited by oic0; 10-10-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:45 PM   #40 (permalink)
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25% less power and like 10-15% more weight.


I have NO idea how they can justify this thing being 430 lbs. That's just silly. Like heavier than a 600 supersport. I get that they have to use less expensive materials to keep the cost where it needs to be... but 430 is NOT a lightweight bike. Which is really going to make it feel like a worse-handling 600 with crappy brakes and no power, instead of a super lightweight like the ninja 250 is.
The basic answer is that Honda is moving away from having specific models for each country and is trying to develop bikes they can sell in multiple markets. So this bike is intended not just as a beginner bike or second bike in the U.S., or just as a 500 sportbike, but also as a mid-to-upper level general transportation bike in third world countries, and as a commuter in the E.U., and to meet tiered licensing in some countries, etc. So it needs to be durable, and not too expensive to build, and to get good gas mileage, etc.

IOW, it isn't a supersport, and it would be silly to evaluate it strictly on those grounds. It's more of a sporty-styled UJM.

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Old 10-10-2012, 05:43 PM   #41 (permalink)
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A little bit of a double standard going on in this thread I think. People are acting like the Ninja 300 is the best thing since sliced bread and the Honda CBR500 rumored specs are a pathetic half attempt at a budget bike?

First, look at the history. The Ninja 250 was launched in the eighties with 38 crank horsepower. The Ninja 300 is launching with 39 crank horsepower and several pounds heavier. Somehow that is progress?

I would bet anything that the CBR500 will make much more torque much lower then the Ninja 300 (which is claimed 27 lt-ft @ 10 grand), and will feel like a much faster bike in nearly any situation.

If you want more then 50 horsepower, just buy an FZ6R, Ninja 650R, SFV650, etc. etc. etc.

If you want a lighter bike, buy Ninja 300 or CBR250R.

This bike is filling the hole between those two categories, in power, price, and weight.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:01 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I remember the first Honda 450 vertical twin (1967?); what a gorgeous looking engine! It had 42 hp back then with torsion bars instead of valve springs. With open pipes the dohc hemi head engine sounded really mean and racy.
-But really, if a 1000cc supersport can make 190hp then why can't a 500 twin make 90 hp in a chassis with a total wet weight around 380 lbs?
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:20 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I remember the first Honda 450 vertical twin (1967?); what a gorgeous looking engine! It had 42 hp back then with torsion bars instead of valve springs. With open pipes the dohc hemi head engine sounded really mean and racy.
-But really, if a 1000cc supersport can make 190hp then why can't a 500 twin make 90 hp in a chassis with a total wet weight around 380 lbs?
I'm sure it's technically possible but there's a reason that a 1000cc supersport costs 15k. They use top shelf components, aluminum frames, carbon fiber, and have several million poured into the engine making it light weight and have higher power to weight.

Are you willing to spend 15k on a 500cc just for the lighter weight and half the horsepower of a liter?

This bike is not meant to be a super sports alternative, it was developed with economy and cost as primary focus.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1sport View Post
A little bit of a double standard going on in this thread I think. People are acting like the Ninja 300 is the best thing since sliced bread and the Honda CBR500 rumored specs are a pathetic half attempt at a budget bike?

First, look at the history. The Ninja 250 was launched in the eighties with 38 crank horsepower. The Ninja 300 is launching with 39 crank horsepower and several pounds heavier. Somehow that is progress?

I would bet anything that the CBR500 will make much more torque much lower then the Ninja 300 (which is claimed 27 lt-ft @ 10 grand), and will feel like a much faster bike in nearly any situation.

If you want more then 50 horsepower, just buy an FZ6R, Ninja 650R, SFV650, etc. etc. etc.

If you want a lighter bike, buy Ninja 300 or CBR250R.

This bike is filling the hole between those two categories, in power, price, and weight.


You got lost in this thread bud... We're comparing the CBR500 specs to the old Ninja 500.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:09 PM   #45 (permalink)
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You got lost in this thread bud... We're comparing the CBR500 specs to the old Ninja 500.
I didn't get lost in anything. The point was that every bike has gotten heavier and less powerful. The Ninja 300 is a bored out heavier version of the Ninja 250 and only makes 1 more HP compared to the original. The difference between a Ninja 500 and CBR500 is consistent with pretty much every other sub 10 grand "budget" motorcycle that has been developed over the last 10 years.

If you want a less power motorcycle you have options. If you want a more powerful motorcycle, you have options. If you want a budget sportbike which is something in between a CBR250R and a Ninja 650R, that's the niche the CBR500 is filling.
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