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Old 08-21-2008, 10:00 AM   #76 (permalink)
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I am one of those that knows that helmets and seatbelts promote a false sense of safety.
Lets face it, a large part of the shitty driving now days is simply do to the fact everone feels soo safe with all the safety bullshit in their cars they take chances they shouldnt, added with medical insurance they litterally think they are Imortal out for the great lawsuit and hten live happily ever after.
The sad fact about seatbelts is deaths have went down since the implimentation of seatbelt laws but maimings went up.
They obvoiusly do help in the most common of accidents frontal collisions but can hurt you in side impact or possibly help as well, dice roll.
Generally speaking in a rollover they save your ass from being thrown out, which again, is not always a good thing since I have two friends "female" who were killed when a car rolled over their head, one friend male, who lived becouse he was thrown from his car before it became a tuna can. two to one on a perosnal level. seems like it should be choice to me.
Helmets are a little differnt, even with para posing as devils advocate some of what he said made sense, the helmet law is feelgood and little more, lets be real, those that are forced to wear them do only wear the bear minimum which really do veyr little at all but make those pushing for the laws to feel better, if we truly were concerned about safety no helmet would be made that was not fullface, but we are not, we base things in society upon emotion, and we "feel" that at least wearing some kind of a helmet has to help right?
We can take this futher to gear, does wearing full leathers and having knee pucks encourage people to ride like assholes? Absolutly it does, with those knee pucks on you get the urge to scuff em up, most never do, some do. but all live with the false sense of security that a leather suit brings. Dont get me wrong, it will help from the road rash, but your fucked with the obsticles. And lets face it, most people dont bother thinking of that aspect at all.
So to me, its clearly a choice, untell the ultimate decision "procration" is somehow legislated then all the other laws are just silly and fucking ignorent for plenty of dumbases that should be culled from the herd will mate, will have kids, will fuck them up the ass and make them miserable for hte rest of their life.
But I guess if a helmet is more important to keep said jack ass alive, who wasnt smart enough to keep himself alive to begin with.

Then I certainly know your priorities.

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Old 08-21-2008, 10:01 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
I was not talking about the "right" to drive a vehicle.

I was talking about the right to be free from unnecessary control by the government, which is a salient human right, not something bestowed by a government.

At heart I am a libertarian, in that I believe that as long as you are not hurting anyone else, you should be free to do whatever the fuck you want. The government should NEVER be in a position to tell an adult of sound mind what he/she can and cannot do, unless those actions negatively impact others.
A huge +fucking 1
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:24 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Helmets are a little differnt, even with para posing as devils advocate some of what he said made sense, the helmet law is feelgood and little more, lets be real, those that are forced to wear them do only wear the bear minimum which really do veyr little at all but make those pushing for the laws to feel better, if we truly were concerned about safety no helmet would be made that was not fullface, but we are not, we base things in society upon emotion, and we "feel" that at least wearing some kind of a helmet has to help right?
I totally agree with this.

If we were SERIOUS about helmet laws, the DOT standard would be replaced by the SNELL standard.

Some info:

DOT: The helmet never actually gets inspected. You register your design and get the DOT sticker with NO testing, NO inspection....its on the honor system. DOT then pulls a *few* random models off the shelf and tests them, if they fail, the company has to change the design. You can see how this model of certification does absolutely NOTHING to ensure anyone's safety.

SNELL: To get a SNELL certification, one of each model has to go through testing, so you know if you see a SNELL sicker that at least one of that model has been put through complete testing and passed.
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Old 08-21-2008, 10:38 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
I totally agree with this.

If we were SERIOUS about helmet laws, the DOT standard would be replaced by the SNELL standard.

Some info:

DOT: The helmet never actually gets inspected. You register your design and get the DOT sticker with NO testing, NO inspection....its on the honor system. DOT then pulls a *few* random models off the shelf and tests them, if they fail, the company has to change the design. You can see how this model of certification does absolutely NOTHING to ensure anyone's safety.

SNELL: To get a SNELL certification, one of each model has to go through testing, so you know if you see a SNELL sicker that at least one of that model has been put through complete testing and passed.
I agree that DOT should test more frequently however snell does have very differnt ratings which personally I do not care for.
I like the DOT standard which the BSI rating also follows close to.

But if yo uare for more random testing I am fully 100 percent for it. Which I think is what you are saying.

I am also against putting a safety rating on a fucking half helmet. I will go for open face helmets as I realize some people may be claustrophobic and unable to wear a full face, but a half helmt? What a joke.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:15 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
I totally agree with this.

If we were SERIOUS about helmet laws, the DOT standard would be replaced by the SNELL standard.

Some info:

DOT: The helmet never actually gets inspected. You register your design and get the DOT sticker with NO testing, NO inspection....its on the honor system. DOT then pulls a *few* random models off the shelf and tests them, if they fail, the company has to change the design. You can see how this model of certification does absolutely NOTHING to ensure anyone's safety.

SNELL: To get a SNELL certification, one of each model has to go through testing, so you know if you see a SNELL sicker that at least one of that model has been put through complete testing and passed.
That's why you always buy a helmet that is both DOT/SNELL certified.

I agree with 636blurr about the helmet ratings though. I think that only full faced helmets should even be considered for such a rating.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:25 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stnkbg1 View Post
She dislikes motorcycles and was going entirely on her gut feeling and nothing more, which bugs the hell out of me.
Learn to accept the fact that almost everybody hates motorcycles and will negatively comment on them any chance they get.

Don't let it get to you or you'll end up in a clock tower popping off 3030 rounds!!!

I just ignore them and walk away.

Motorcycle companies are not in favor of anti-helmet laws. In fact, they co-advertise and coop with helmet manufacturers to bolster sales.

Just a note: Full faced helmets are illegal in some Countries and that number is growing. In Florida, there is a gang of sportbike riders stealing purses on their motorcycles and the victims cannot identify them. They have not yet been caught. This is one large reason that leads to these laws.

Let's just hope that it doesn't come to that.

I, for one, am completely for full faced helmets.

I've been in multiple accidents during my life and was always saved by my crushed helmet.

One night, I went to dinner with my family and it was close buy so I didn't think I needed a helmet. I went to the restaurant on my bike without a helmet. I had an accident on my way home and my face smashed into my gas tank. I died at the scene and was revived in the ambulance. Busted my whole face apart and caused severe brain damage.

I could be a vegetable right now.

One time, I rode with no helmet and it killed me. I've had 5 other motorcycle accidents with a helmet on and walked away from the crash, unscratched.

So, you tell me, what would you think if you were me.

Here is a picture of what I looked like when I rode without a helmet.
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File Type: bmp meinhospital.bmp (900.1 KB, 15 views)

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Old 08-21-2008, 11:38 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thumpertwin View Post
Just a note: Full faced helmets are illegal in some Countries and that number is growing. In Florida, there is a gang of sportbike riders stealing purses on their motorcycles and the victims cannot identify them. They have not yet been caught. This is one large reason that leads to these laws.
I'm just have to call BS on this one. There can't possibly be a country that outlaws something like that.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:57 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Just a note: Full faced helmets are illegal in some Countries and that number is growing. In Florida, there is a gang of sportbike riders stealing purses on their motorcycles and the victims cannot identify them. They have not yet been caught. This is one large reason that leads to these laws.

Let's just hope that it doesn't come to that.
Please post more info...I have never heard of this and I (no offense) am highly skeptical that this is real.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:59 AM   #84 (permalink)
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I would be interested to see what he comes up with, he is right though motorcycle/scooters are used in purse snatchings like crazy in other countries but I cannot see being able to identify someone via a open faced helmet would make a difference.
Of course common sense and laws dont go hand and hand, And then you have hollywood fueling the bullshit.
I say ban hollywood.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:01 PM   #85 (permalink)
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I would be interested to see what he comes up with, he is right though motorcycle/scooters are used in purse snatchings like crazy in other countries but I cannot see being able to identify someone via a open faced helmet would make a difference.
Of course common sense and laws dont go hand and hand, And then you have hollywood fueling the bullshit.
I say ban hollywood.
I know columbia and brazil have HUGE problems with this...but you can just as easily put on a balaclava or mask....banning full face helmets makes absolutely no sense at all.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:02 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Wow so a quick yahoo came up with this.

Just goes to prove that people in government are the dumbest fucking people on earth. Now consider this, Motorcycles is their main form of motorized travel, and they are planning this legislation?

More Anti-Motorcycle Laws Proposed - Motorcycle Philippines

A councilor in Quezon City has proposed a no backriders law. See forum thread. And the protest rally thread here. A councilor in Marikina wants to ban full face helmets. See forum thread. A senator wants a law to force riders to paint their plate number on their helmets. See forum thread.

Where will this lunacy end? We already have bikes forced off tollways onto far more dangerous roads because 35 years ago a presidential escort was killed in an accident after he was ordered not to wear a helmet. If you want to laugh (or maybe cry for the Philippines) see the legal reasoning here.

We have riders buying bikes and cannot use them for months while they wait for plates to be issued. See forum thread. And we have underpasses and roads prohibited to motorcycles for no logical reason.

While most developed countries are actively encouraging motorcycle use to reduce congestion, reduce polution, free up parking spaces, reduce gasolene consumption and travel costs, etc. The Philippines has for years done exactly the opposite. Cars are encouraged while anti-motorcycle discrimination abounds. Dangerous smoke belching wrecks are used for public transport while law enforcers stand around watching them blatently breaking the law.

Buses in the Philippines average over 170 times more accidents per vehicle per year than motorcycles but many government officials see only the Hollywood movie bad guys and the occasional lunatic messenger zipping through the traffic. The 99% or more of riders who have been proved by all the statistics and records to be by far the safest drivers in the Philippines are ignored, or worse, discriminated against at every opportunity. See this page for statistics and much more information on accident and safety records.

Over thirty years ago, motorcycle police officers escorting visiting U.S. dignitary Richard M. Nixon were ordered to replace their safety helmets with traditional Filipino hats. Unfortunately, one of them was killed in an accident along the South Luzon Expressway (SLEX) In a knee-jerk reaction to this unfortunate but preventable incident, the Department of Public Works and Communications ordered an immediate ban of motorcycles from the tollways.

The motorcycle community, led by the Freedom Riders MC filed legal action on the grounds that the ban is illegal and on 16 July 2001 a Writ of Preliminary Injunction, was issued by the Makati Regional Trial Court, Branch 147 ruling that motorcyclists have the legal right as licensed motorists to use the tollways. The Judge said that respondents DPWH and TRB have no power or authority to ban motorcycles on expressways and “therefore, the ban in the expressways on motorcycles is void and illegal”. The judge also cited the predicament of the motorcyclist-petitioners who are forced to use the more dangerous side roads in their travels as a result of the motorcycle ban.

Two days later the DPWH hastily issued Department Order #123 under advice of PNCC Chairman Luis Sison. DO 123 bans all motorcycles of less than 400cc (about 99% of motorcycles) from the tollways. Contempt of court charges are still pending. When asked why he proposed such a limit the Chairman said that because anyone who cannot afford to ride a bike of over 400cc is poor and uneducated. We didn’t say the obvious that every bus driver, jeepney driver, taxi driver, truck driver and half the car drivers on the road cannot afford a big bike either so why are they not banned? When asked why the PNCC use 125 - 175cc bikes to patrol the tollways he said “because we can’t afford bigger bikes. No comment!

The writ stood for two years until a replacement judge on friendly terms with the DPWH’s lawyer reversed all previous court decisions. The case is now with the supreme court while nearly one million riders araound the world are boycotting tourism to the Philippines until the life threatening ban is lifted. See the Bantay Turista article here. During the two years that all bikes were allowed access to the tollways there were two accidents involving motorcycles on tollways. Both were big bikes and both accidents were caused by trucks. During the same period many people were killed in bus and truck accidents. As far as we know there has not been one single reported incident involving a small bike. The full story, statistics, reports and links to related pages, etc are here.

We all know that the best way to beat the traffic is to use a motorcycle and crooks know this as well as we do. Recently, there has been an increase in the use of motorcycles by crooks to get away from the scene of a crime. The obvious thing to do for most of us is to find out why the law enforcers seem so helpless and try to help them enforce the law. But obviously some of our elected officials don’t think the same way we do.

The first councilor to step up and make himself famous (infamous) was from Marikina. He observed that many crooks use full face helmets to disguise themselves so his proposal is that full face helmets should be banned putting thousands of riders in danger while the crooks simply use a bandana and sunglasses instead.

Next up on the stage is a councilor from Quezon City who decided that because bikes are used as getaway vehicles all backriders (pillion riders) must be banned. Obviously the crooks will simply arrive at the scene separately, commit the crime, jump on the bike and escape as usual. Does he believe that someone who has just committed a serious crime is going to be afraid to break the no backriding law? Meanwhile thousands of people who have saved for years and invested in a motorcycle to reduce travel expenses and share it to get to work will now have to pay for the bike but also have to pay to use the dangerous public transport that probably kills far more people every year than motorcycle riding crooks.

The latest and possibly the greatest is our Senator Dick Gordon, previously Secretary for Tourism.

I quote from the forums:

Baguio City - In the wake of reports that most assassins use motorcycles and are never caught, Sen. Richard Gordon said he had filed a bill seeking to ban motorcycles that lack identification from the streets. In a press forum here on Friday, Gordon said the bill also seeks to require motorcycle drivers to wear helmets that bear the vehicle’s plate number and driver’s name. “Nobody can ride a motorcycle without a written plate number and name on the helmet. So if there is a driver who is running his motorcycle without his helmet, we can stop him and ask ‘Do you have a gun?’ if he does not meet the requirements, then he has a violation,” he said.

Do I need to comment on this? Maybe mention that helmets cost between 2,000 and 30,000 pesos each. That paint will damage them. That many riders have more than one bike so they need to buy more helmets, etc.

How about we just follow this logic a little further. Lets make it law that every car driver must wear a hat with his licence plate number painted on the sides because maybe he stole the car to commit a crime. Then if he is not wearing the right hat we can stop him and ask “Do you have a gun?”

I have to finish here because I can’t stop laughing.

All together now… Only in the Philippines.

OK serious now. Since the formation of the Motorcycle Philippines Federation there is now a central point for anyone who needs advice on motorcycles, motorcycling and motorclists so maybe more politicians will talk to us before suggesting their schemes. We have all the top people so they just have to ask.

The fact that the Motorcycle Philippines Federation has been formally requested by the Office of the President to prepare a policy paper for motorcycle use incentives is a huge step in the right direction but while we work on that we have to try to “educate” these anti-motorcycle politicians. Motorcycles are now over 37% of the vehicles on the road. That’s a lot of votes and a lot of influence if we work together.

Can we reverse the trend and follow advanced countries that encourage motorcycles? I think maybe we can - with your help.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:05 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Yeah, the Phillipines is like Laos (Myanmar) in that the government is so totally corrupt and fucked, you can't use its laws as the basis for any argument applied to civilized countries.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:09 PM   #88 (permalink)
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They definatly need a revolution, for sure.


Really sad to see people suffering like that only for greed and corruption.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:12 PM   #89 (permalink)
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It was several articles here and there that I read. I'd have to research when I have the time to find those exact articles and from which Countries they were from. But, if you poke around, you'll find lots of stuff like that.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:13 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Yeah, my buddy is from Burma....the stories he told me about the police/military there were absolutely terrifying. People dragged from their homes, raped, killed, extorted, etc, etc, etc...
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