The stupidest thing done on a motorcycle.

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

It changes the same time you turn around to yell at your kids in the backseat and while your not paying attention you slam into another family.

Sorry its all relevent.

You know what. That freaking happen to me once before. But what's intentional? Me turning around to yell at my kids or you pulling a wheelie infront of me with you girlfriend riding on the bike? Not everything is relevent. The wheelie thing really did happen once before on the super slab. Freak the shit out of me.

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by isaac

How is that even debatable? This is what I call "a no shitter." You don't do stupid shit, and everybody's ok. Do a wheelie by yourself. That's fine. Do a wheelie into the side of a car that's turning? Bad.

I'm glad I was here to clarify.

My point being does it pay to run from the cops? That’s all. Everyone it entitled to their own opinions for whatever reason. I'll stick to being an ol fart.

[636blurr]

Originally Posted by thelazyone

You know what. That freaking happen to me once before. But what's intentional? Me turning around to yell at my kids or you pulling a wheelie infront of me with you girlfriend riding on the bike? Not everything is relevent. The wheelie thing really did happen once before on the super slab. Freak the shit out of me.

I dont agree with children in the backseat to begin with, I think its one of those safety laws that creates alot more problems than the main one it was ment to solve.

WHen Im pulling a wheelie or doing anything of the sort I am paying more attention than normal riding, Especially when speeding, which is how the mind works, as you accelerate something it is forced to pay attention (*why speed reading is more effective to retention than not, why some are challanging traditional learning by claiming speed learning is more effective example would be cramming the night before a test where yo9ur retention is better than over a long period of time allowing the mind to wander)

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by 636blurr

I dont agree with children in the backseat to begin with, I think its one of those safety laws that creates alot more problems than the main one it was ment to solve.

WHen Im pulling a wheelie or doing anything of the sort I am paying more attention than normal riding, Especially when speeding, which is how the mind works, as you accelerate something it is forced to pay attention (*why speed reading is more effective to retention than not, why some are challanging traditional learning by claiming speed learning is more effective example would be cramming the night before a test where yo9ur retention is better than over a long period of time allowing the mind to wander)

Let me ask you. When you pull wheelies do you do them when there are other vehicles near by? I don't have a beef with anyone doing wheelies (secretly wants to pull one to impress the wife) but at least have the smarts to not do it on the super slab with your g/f on the bike and i'm like a car length behind you.

[FishInABowl]

Sadly, I was leaving a bar one night, pretty messed up. Definitly shouldn't have been riding. I didn't wear any gear at all, because I had no place to put it! So I hopped on my bike and I was anxious to get back home so as I was heading toward the highway I passed some people on the double yellow while speeding and doing a wheelie' while texting my wife to let her know I was on my way home and finishing off my last beer. Then I finally got on the interstate and decided it was the best time to try a top speed run. I got her up to about 195 (indicated) and I blasted by some popo who were radaring people at 1:30 in the morning and at this point I couldn't stop so I kept on running!







Of course, the above story is obviously false

I don't even have a bike yet

[TwoColorShoe]

Originally Posted by isaac

In the eyes of the law, the world stunt champion pulling a wheelie on the street is just as bad as a 15 year old kid who stole a GSXR1000 and has never ridden before, pulling a wheelie on the street. There's obviously a vast difference in actual safety there, whereas the perception of safety is identical, and that perception is what the police act upon, irrespective of the facts of the situation. That's what's stupid about our society.

I'm glad I was here to clarify.

But that's the whole point to begin with with making these laws. We can't tell whether the person pulling a wheelie is a beginner on a gsxr1k or a professional stunter. What we can assume, though, is that there are a whole lot more people that don't know how to bring the front back down safely every single time than who do.

This isn't what is stupid about society. Just because maybe ten percent of the people that do this on public streets are able to do it safely, does not mean it's ok to do. (and I know that I'm going to get a lot of flack for that sentence, and people will use straw man fallacies/etc to get their point across)

The "problem with society" (if I can reeeeeally stretch) is today's entirely consumerist and materialistic debt based society. People just have to buy newer faster bikes every year (not you, of course. I love your bike), and a "bigger is better" mentality has really permeated today's market. This leads to many untrained and uneducated people on bikes that are twice as fast as bikes a few decades ago (which were still seen as "too fast for beginners"). This leads to more stupid squids poorly performing wheelies, and causing a great danger to themselves and others, requiring the steps to catch and prosecute these people in order to stop them.

If everyone did wheelies just fine, then it would, honest to god, not be a problem at all with the law. A fair analogy would be having the arms that come down at railroad crossings. Why stop me before the train crosses? I can cross it safely and effectively without putting myself or others in danger! The problem is that not everyone can do it, and some people have been killed because of it.

[crbaldree]

Originally Posted by isaac

How is that even debatable? This is what I call "a no shitter." You don't do stupid shit, and everybody's ok. Do a wheelie by yourself. That's fine. Do a wheelie into the side of a car that's turning? Bad.

When cops (or non-riders) operate under the assumption that anybody who does something illegal on a bike is out of control and seconds from disaster, they're paranoid control freaks. When you then give those people the power to legally impugn the judgment of a skilled rider who's just having fun, it fucks up the natural order of things.

In the eyes of the law, the world stunt champion pulling a wheelie on the street is just as bad as a 15 year old kid who stole a GSXR1000 and has never ridden before, pulling a wheelie on the street. There's obviously a vast difference in actual safety there, whereas the perception of safety is identical, and that perception is what the police act upon, irrespective of the facts of the situation. That's what's stupid about our society.

I'm glad I was here to clarify.

well you also have to think too that if you let people on a motorcycle act a little goofy you have to let every vehicle do it. the law isn't supposed to discriminate, if I speed in my truck and you speed on your bike we are both suppposed to be punished

[isaac]

Originally Posted by FishInABowl

Sadly, I was leaving a bar one night, pretty messed up. Definitly shouldn't have been riding. I didn't wear any gear at all, because I had no place to put it! So I hopped on my bike and I was anxious to get back home so as I was heading toward the highway I passed some people on the double yellow while speeding and doing a wheelie' while texting my wife to let her know I was on my way home and finishing off my last beer. Then I finally got on the interstate and decided it was the best time to try a top speed run. I got her up to about 195 (indicated) and I blasted by some popo who were radaring people at 1:30 in the morning and at this point I couldn't stop so I kept on running!







Of course, the above story is obviously false

I don't even have a bike yet

Don't worry man. Someday you'll be able to do all of those things.

[TwoColorShoe]

Originally Posted by thelazyone

Let me ask you. When you pull wheelies do you do them when there are other vehicles near by? I don't have a beef with anyone doing wheelies (secretly wants to pull one to impress the wife) but at least have the smarts to not do it on the super slab with your g/f on the bike and i'm like a car length behind you.

+1. I love wheelies.(although I can't do them.... ) Just replace wife with girlfriend in my case.

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by TwoColorShoe

But that's the whole point to begin with with making these laws. We can't tell whether the person pulling a wheelie is a beginner on a gsxr1k or a professional stunter. What we can assume, though, is that there are a whole lot more people that don't know how to bring the front back down safely every single time than who do.

This isn't what is stupid about society. Just because maybe ten percent of the people that do this on public streets are able to do it safely, does not mean it's ok to do. (and I know that I'm going to get a lot of flack for that sentence, and people will use straw man fallacies/etc to get their point across)

The "problem with society" (if I can reeeeeally stretch) is today's entirely consumerist and materialistic debt based society. People just have to buy newer faster bikes every year (not you, of course. I love your bike), and a "bigger is better" mentality has really permeated today's market. This leads to many untrained and uneducated people on bikes that are twice as fast as bikes a few decades ago (which were still seen as "too fast for beginners"). This leads to more stupid squids poorly performing wheelies, and causing a great danger to themselves and others, requiring the steps to catch and prosecute these people in order to stop them.

If everyone did wheelies just fine, then it would, honest to god, not be a problem at all with the law. A fair analogy would be having the arms that come down at railroad crossings. Why stop me before the train crosses? I can cross it safely and effectively without putting myself or others in danger! The problem is that not everyone can do it, and some people have been killed because of it.

[g34343greg]

i pass on double yellows all of the time. PA is ridiculous when it comes to giving you legal passing zones on 2 lane backroads. i always choose straight sections of road where i can see far enough and make the pass quickly and safely.

i speed most of the time, but very rarely do i go over 90 and never over 100. a few baby wheelies here and there too.

oh and i try to get people to exotic cars to "race" me, not because i'm actually going to, but i just enjoy hearing/ seeing something fast go flying by me

[isaac]

Originally Posted by TwoColorShoe

But that's the whole point to begin with with making these laws. We can't tell whether the person pulling a wheelie is a beginner on a gsxr1k or a professional stunter. What we can assume, though, is that there are a whole lot more people that don't know how to bring the front back down safely every single time than who do.

This isn't what is stupid about society.

It is what's stupid about society. The reason is we take these blanket assumptions, turn them into laws to protect everybody from a dangerous few, and empower cops to legally interpret the difference.

That system of "police discretion" makes us believe we won't be ticketed every time we get pulled over, depending on the situation and the real safety hazards inherent to it.

The only problem is that we've already set up a system where the police essentially fund themselves by ticketing otherwise safe people by following the letter of the law rather than using their own discretion to identify what's truly safe after the fact when they pull the person over. There's little guarantee that the cop who pulls you over will truly understand the safety issues of the situation without his judgment being clouded by emotion or the need to bolster department funding with another several hundred dollar fine from you, even if you were "breaking the law" in a totally innocuous manner.

So you have so many riders/drivers so inured of the police's poor judgment and financially justified motivations that they fear having to be subjected to it, and therefore they run. If the system weren't already set up to be governed entirely by people with notoriously erratic judgment, this wouldn't be an issue.

Originally Posted by TwoColorShoe

A fair analogy would be having the arms that come down at railroad crossings. Why stop me before the train crosses? I can cross it safely and effectively without putting myself or others in danger! The problem is that not everyone can do it, and some people have been killed because of it.

Yeah but most traffic rules are enacted because one idiot out of 1,000 fucked up and crashed, therefore putting the city in fear of being sued for having unsafe road conditions, and so they oversimplify things by adding yet another overzealous law to keep the one idiot from fucking up, crashing, and suing the city.

That's why you'll see a new traffic light where there wasn't one before, in an area that's not growing. Or you'll see a "no U-turns" sign suddenly in an otherwise very safe, wide open area, where there obviously needn't be one.

It's because that 1 out of 1,000 people fucked up and crashed due to their incompetence, but they wanted to blame the city, and so the city gets scared and makes yet another rule for EVERYBODY, despite 999 out of 1,000 people being able to negotiate the intersection/curve/stop sign/railroad crossing just fine. The only difference is that now if those 999 other people do the same thing they did the day before, it's illegal, and they owe hundreds of dollars.

I've worked with numerous city councils and city management staffs with issues like this, and that's how that really works. It's amazing how the fear-driven whims of a city/county council/commission can turn an otherwise safe driving maneuver from safe and legal to safe but illegal overnight.

I've been present at city discussions where traffic engineers persuade the council that if they lower the speed limit on a road from 45mph to 35mph, more total cars will be able to flow through that street during rush hour. That speed limit is then lowered for the purpose of improving traffic flow, with safety not being a factor at all. Yet when a cop pulls you over for doing your customary 50mph in that road the day after the speed limit changes, he's cussing his brains out at you about how you were driving like a maniac on account of the new 15mph differential between your vehicle and the number on the sign.

[thelazyone]

Originally Posted by isaac

The only problem is that we've already set up a system where the police essentially fund themselves by ticketing otherwise safe people by following the letter of the law rather than using their own discretion to identify what's truly safe after the fact when they pull the person over. There's little guarantee that the cop you pulls you over will truly understand the safety issues of the situation without his judgment being clouded by emotion or the need to bolster department funding with another several hundred dollar fine from you, even if you were "breaking the law" in a totally innocuous manner.

Is this a fact or an opinion? Laws are laws plain and simple. During my brother's first week of assignment. He had to write someone up on a traffic violation. He felt bad. His patrol supervisor was riding with him and he had no choice but to write the guy up. I'd be a little hesitant with make such statements. When can turn this topic into an all day debate but the truth to the matter is when you break laws, there are consequences to be paid.

[isaac]

Originally Posted by thelazyone

When can turn this topic into an all day debate but the truth to the matter is when you break laws, there are consequences to be paid.

You write that like it's some sort of universal truth, and that laws enacted for one reason but interpreted for another are somehow just.

There's a law on the books in Florida that if you cross a railroad track in your car before stopping, getting out, firing a gun into the air, getting back in, honking your horn twice, and then proceeding with caution, you get ticketed. It was never repealed.

So the next time I forget to do all that shit, I'll pull over and call the cops on myself. That's just how it is. I broke the law. There are consequences to be paid.

And what I wrote was fact. Yes laws are written as plainly as possible, but many are open for interpretation. "Reckless driving" can apply to damn near anything a cop wants it to, just as a cop can pull you over for doing 30mph over the limit and give you a ticket for having a taillight out and send you on your way, grateful for the levity.

[tarosean]

Damn has Dealsgapdragon rubbed off on someone????