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General SportbikesThis area is made for sportbikes in general. Posts that dont really belong anywhere else besides here. Questions can be answered and addressed to fully understand certain aspects. If your question is Manufacturer specific please post it there.
Regarding the parity, what do you think will happen when Mladin retires and Spies goes to MotoGP? Parity maybe? It may not need as much tweaking as one might think...
Sure Mladin and Spies are great riders, but you put DuHamel on Mladin's bike and Mladin on DuHamel's and I'd be willing to bet the Suzuki still wins. I think other riders could do the same.
Just look at the stock bikes, the GSXR has a three program ECU from the factory for starters. I'm not knocking Suzuki, they have done one hell of a job developing that bike the past several years.
Neutering the classes to "create parity" is not the answer. I don't believe anyone wants to see that, but nobody wants to see everyone racing for third either.
Look at WSB, they allowed Ducati 200cc's more displacement with less tuning than they were allowed before so they could be more competitive. And the rules allow for adding ballast to the Ducatis if the 200cc displacement created too much of an advantage. Seems to be working well so far.
There is a lot of discussion about this on another board (mostly racers). Most of those guys see the proposal as a dumbing-down of the series. Not sure how DMG figures this will bring more sponsorship dollars to the series. To some extent, the factories are hurting the commercial promotion, yet they need to be involved to help make it work. There has to be some formula that will work in this country. Bike racing will never be as big in America as it is in Europe, but it can surely be bigger than it is.
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For as dumb as you are, even you will remember this. - Lee Ving/ Fear
Ever feel you've been cheated? - Johnny Rotten
I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
To give you a bit of my background, I don't race but I have been a cornerworker for 10 years and this year will be my third working for the AMA on a limited basis. I have raced before, just not bikes.
With that said, I understand there are many facets to this whole mess. Factory involvement (sponsorships and rule making), rules (including fair enforcement), sponsorship (series/TV/racer) and sponsors seeing a return on their investment in the form of airtime.
It's now late April. Sponsorship contracts need to be figured out by early September for next year if I remember correctly. That gives everyone just over 4 months to figure out where this all goes. If DMG upsets the apple cart with what they are proposing, the racers stand to be severely hurt in the sponsorship area. With the economy as it is and all of the uncertainty with the series, how will they attract enough sponsorship money to continue? How does DMG attract the series sponsor they sorely need?
__________________
For as dumb as you are, even you will remember this. - Lee Ving/ Fear
Ever feel you've been cheated? - Johnny Rotten
I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
Ultimately they are trying to build a series with a set of rules that places all the bikes into essentially the same performance envelope. That means 883-powered Buells have an even advantage against Suzukis, or maybe they will just place the 1200CC (or 1125cc) Buells into this class just to make it "fair".
This will give us nice tight NASCAR-type packs. In fact with the rolling starts and pace cars its gonna look quite a bit like NASCAR. Thats right, ROLLING STARTS in our premier road racing series...
Sure Mladin and Spies are great riders, but you put DuHamel on Mladin's bike and Mladin on DuHamel's and I'd be willing to bet the Suzuki still wins. I think other riders could do the same.
Tommy Hayden rides the same bike. Oh wait, he did podium twice this weekend. But still, Tommy has had his struggles on the Yosh bike, only finishing 5th overall last season. Duhamel is a great rider, and I respect him very much, but his best days are behind him. He'll be 40 in a couple weeks.
Spies and Mladin are just on another level from the rest. And maybe that's killing the series, I don't know...
Every other season has been close. Last year there was one point between 1st and 2nd. Every other year has had multiple winners and real points chases.
They need to consolidate the 600 classes and ditch the Superstock series. Follow the winning formula - FIM SBK.
Superbike racing started right here in the US. We need to return to having the ultimate series.
Tommy Hayden rides the same bike. Oh wait, he did podium twice this weekend. But still, Tommy has had his struggles on the Yosh bike, only finishing 5th overall last season. Duhamel is a great rider, and I respect him very much, but his best days are behind him. He'll be 40 in a couple weeks.
Spies and Mladin are just on another level from the rest. And maybe that's killing the series, I don't know...
What I hear is that Tommy doesn't get the same parts as Mat or Ben. He's racing for third like everyone else unless Spies or Mladin make an uncharacteristic mistake.
OK, maybe Miguel is on the downside. What if you put Hodgson or DiSalvo or maybe Ziemke on the Suzuki and Mladin or Spies on the Yamaha, Kawasaki, or Honda? Don't get me wrong, Mat and Ben are fantastic riders, but some of the equation IS the hardware. Some of it is also that the teams have been together as long as they have - the guys on the Yoshimura team can practically read each other's minds they've worked together so much.
__________________
For as dumb as you are, even you will remember this. - Lee Ving/ Fear
Ever feel you've been cheated? - Johnny Rotten
I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
Spies and Mladin are that good. You don't gap the third fastest rider on the grid in this class with these rules by 1.5 seconds a lap with just equipment. Everyone else is fighting over tenths of a second.
A lot of it is teamwork, and preparation, but skill is what sets those two apart.
Hodgson is done, too. He's a whining prima donna who came over here thinking he was going to mop up. DiSalvo has what it takes, and is coming into his own. Both Bostroms are strong starters, but quitters down the line. Zemke is a real rider. He's the last non-Yosh Suzuki pilot to win a Superbike race. He finished 3rd overall last year, and then got dumped by Honda. (Honda has a way of doing this, ask Colin Edwards or Nicky Hayden) Zemke still has something to prove.
Tommy Hayden rides the same bike. Oh wait, he did podium twice this weekend. But still, Tommy has had his struggles on the Yosh bike, only finishing 5th overall last season. Duhamel is a great rider, and I respect him very much, but his best days are behind him. He'll be 40 in a couple weeks.
Spies and Mladin are just on another level from the rest. And maybe that's killing the series, I don't know...
Superbike racing started right here in the US. We need to return to having the ultimate series.
Tommy Hayden's problem last year was that he wasn't healthy and was on a new bike/new team. He's gonna be on the box a lot this year.
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My "toys":
'09 Vulcan 900 Custom Special Edition
'08 Concours 14
'05 CBR1000RR Repsol
'04 VW R32
I could just fucking CHOKE those idiots. "Daytona Superbikes" based on 600s and an obvious attempt to kill the liter class? WHAT. THE. FUCK!!!??!
Make the rules as follows:
1000cc Superstock becomes Superbike. No more traction control. ENFORCE IT.
600cc FX is still FX.
MotoST support series added.
Really, this is all about the Daytona 200, and that tracks prohibition on 1000 CC bikes. Now they get to race the "premier" class at their "premier" track. This is something they promised from the first day, which means they were planning on fucking up this sport right from the get go.
So I see everywhere in racing that the premier class is the biggest, the baddest, the one that everybody knows is probably the toughest to control in a racing situation. I think that's the one everybody wants to see. I think the customer has spoken. I don't really understand when I hear folks say, "Let's let the customer decide." I somehow don't think that, given the option, the customer is going to decide on the smaller displacement bike....
Quote:
Q You mentioned the liter bike. Times are challenging in the motorcycle industry right now. How difficult would it be for Honda to enter four bikes in a liter bike class?
A Well, it depends on what "enter" means. If it means "Do I have four bikes I can give some guys to let them go ride," I could do that. I've got four bikes here.
Q Four competitive liter bikes.
A Four competitive liter bikes? It's not in the picture. It really isn't...
And I don't know that I'd want to do it. Expense aside, why would we want to spread the focus out across four bikes?... Shall we do one good one and three bad ones, or I got to have a good one and a medium, and two parboils? If we're going to put a top class bike out there, then we want them piloted by top-class riders. If we do that, then we're battling with ourselves. And should I expect that Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki will do the same?... The four bike minimum guarantee just doesn't work for me.
^^^ That's almighty Honda talking. How do you think Ducati and the others feel? Ain't no way Ducati, MV, Aprilia, or even the other Japanese factories can do this AND do the new Daytona Superbike series.
I feel if DMG get their way, were going to see some pretty lame ass bikes for the American market soon. When you make something into a "spec" class, manufacturers don't have to develop shit to be competitive anymore. The days of OEMs making improvements to their bikes every 2 years could very well be over. We don't see NASCAR tech making it to streetcars do we?
I feel if DMG get their way, were going to see some pretty lame ass bikes for the American market soon. When you make something into a "spec" class, manufacturers don't have to develop shit to be competitive anymore. The days of OEMs making improvements to their bikes every 2 years could very well be over. We don't see NASCAR tech making it to streetcars do we?
Fortunately there is still WSB, the various classes of Isle of Man, and MotorGP. Some of that stuff does trickle down.
The market for the newest hottest bike isn't going to dry up because of "nascarization" of the AMA. I don't like it either, but the big four(and Europeans) are still in business to SELL bikes. The biggest, baddest, fastest machine will ALWAYS do best in the numero uno consumer market. The U S of A.
Does suck though, AMA supersport is my favorite to watch, for gearhead reasons.
Ray Blank is all but challenging WERA to step up and take on DMG the way I read the article. He hints that Honda isn't the only one who'd jump ship. The way Suzuki blasted DMG face to face in California, you know they'd walk too.
Ducati has to be scratching their heads. They got rules to bring them back into the series (which they want to do) and DMG is basically telling them to F.O. I don't see Ducati fielding a factory based team for 600 Superbike with their 848, the 1098 is their pride and joy - their premier bike. I don't see Aprilia, Triumph, BMW, KTM, or anyone else making a big presence from a factory standpoint.
I don't think that DMG is all that happy with Daytona (the track) - even though they are part of the same corporation. Notice the talk about having one of the races on Thursday with few spectators in the stands, and the same for Superbike qualifying?
AMA had the tail wagging the dog to some extent, but DMG has the tail wagging the jackass!
__________________
For as dumb as you are, even you will remember this. - Lee Ving/ Fear
Ever feel you've been cheated? - Johnny Rotten
I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
Ray Blank is all but challenging WERA to step up and take on DMG the way I read the article. He hints that Honda isn't the only one who'd jump ship. The way Suzuki blasted DMG face to face in California, you know they'd walk too.
Do you have a link to Suzuki vs. DMG?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptNemo
Third, after 11 pages of I just have to say thanks for the entertainment that you bring to the forum. Without Spil!z we'd all carry on intelligent conversations and never get to see the inner workings of the California justice system.
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