DMG/AMA-Edmondson Daytona Motorsports Group Discussion Thread

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by dealsgapdragon

Hope They don't ban 1000 streetbikes. But we know They want to.

That would cut top speed from 200 down to a measly 160 on the street.

The big dark secret of NASCAR is that Cup cars are one of the slowest categories in all of NASCAR, due to extreme weight of steel bodies.

So They prefer slow bikes. Especially since Daytona is such an unsafe track with legal liability for bikers. Just slow the bikes rather than improve track safety.

IIRC, a stock R6 has run a GPS verified 170mph.

I really don't see how any of the manufacturers can be happy with this. Supersport goes away to be replaced by what sounds like the FX series.

Superbikes become 'second-class' citizens.

If they wanted closer racing, then they'll have to put everyone on spec bikes. Even tires don't necessarily give you close races (witness:f1). Close races are hard to have as long as the equipment isn't the same and you aren't running on an oval.

We'll see how it turns out but I'm worried the more I read.

It's possible the manufacturers say fuck it and start their own series.

[OldSchlPunk]

WSB has become the series to watch this year. I am not a fan of the spec tire rule, but the racing is better than ever. Any number of guys have a reasonable chance to win at any venue.

[jk750]

^^^
Maybe DMG should look at why that is, instead of neutering the machines.

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by lemosley01

IIRC, a stock R6 has run a GPS verified 170mph.
If they wanted closer racing, then they'll have to put everyone on spec bikes. Even tires don't necessarily give you close races (witness:f1). Close races are hard to have as long as the equipment isn't the same and you aren't running on an oval.

This is exactly where NASCAR comes from. Sure the cars may be slightly different, but you can't really tell on race day after the rules have worked to make them as close as possible to one another. I really don't want to see this happen to motorcycle racing in this country.

Yeah, it sucks when a guy like Stoner runs away with the title like last year in MotoGP, but thats the price you pay for a series like that. In the end the manufactures had to play catch up and this season is shaping up to be a lot more exciting.

[jk750]

Exactly! I don't really think we are getting better product from Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Toyota as a result of their NASCAR racing endeavors.
Not one part except the hood and the roof is stock.

Falling behind and failing for a few races or even a full season fuels development and produces a better product in motorcycling.

[HighsideSV]

Originally Posted by jk750

Exactly! I don't really think we are getting better product from Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Toyota as a result of their NASCAR racing endeavors.
Not one part except the hood and the roof is stock.

Falling behind and failing for a few races or even a full season fuels development and produces a better product in motorcycling.

Exactly, a ruleset that evens the playing field (I bet you a dollar that the rules are whacky enough to give Buell a shot at the podium) means that manufactures have no reason to try and make a better bike. Fortunatly we still have WSB and other more legitimate racing series to keep them honest.

It just pisses me off that in a market like the US we are stuck with a backwards series that plays ZERO role in global racing. We have the money and resources to build the best national racing curcuit in the world, but we just won't do it.

[Dr.K]

Could be good, could be bad. Only time will tell.

[xeony2k]

I think this could be a step in a better direction. It depends on the people running the show... NASCAR owes a great deal to Big Bill and Jr.

[OldSchlPunk]

Car racing and bike racing are completely different things, most promoters don't understand this. DMG is just looking to make money, doing it the NASCRAP way won't do it with bikes.

Like someone pointed out on another board, the US doesn't embrace bikes like Europe or Japan. Bike racing will likely always be a second-tier series because of this. Is that necessarily bad?

Like I've said before, AMA roadracing only needed tweaks to regain some respect. They mainly needed to level the playing field when it comes to tires and availability of race kit parts between the factory teams and everyone else. I wouldn't have thought those would be that hard to address.

[jk750]

This thread is for discussing the big changes in AMA racing coming next year due to the buyout by DMG.

Here's the latest information >>> More On DMG's Plans For AMA Road Racing News Article // RoadracingWorld.com

Superbikes will now be called 'Daytona Superbikes', mostly 600cc I4 machines, spec tires, spec fuel, DMG controlled ecu's, horsepower limits and targeted and specific power-to-weight ratios. Similar to Formula Xtreme, but with more restrictions than even Supersport. Usually double-header weekends.

Current 1000cc (and 1200cc Ducs) Superbikes will continue for two more years, in a new class called LiterBikes. Originally, liter bikes were going to be excluded completely next season. Only one race per weekend, as a support class for 'Daytona Superbikes'. Spec tires, spec fuel, minimum and maximum number of each manufacture allowed to race. If you don't meet the minimum number (probably 4 of each brand) nobody on that brand can race. If the maximum number is already entered, nobody else on that brand will be allowed to race. Also, there will be NO PURSE MONEY AWARDED FOR THIS CLASS!!!
Do you really think Ducati is going to come back to the US with four teams and four riders for two years for this??? MV Agusta??? Even the Japanese factories will have a tough time fielding grids in this class in addition to the Daytona Superbike class.

While the rest of the world races and develops their liter plus Superbikes, the US alone will campaign 600s in the premier class.

[bumblebee]

NASCAR will turn AMA into the cookie cutter jockeys riding rolling billboards just like their Cup Series. It will be all about money and sponsors and nothing else...there will be no dissent or non-conformity allowed. They are going to treat sportbikers just like their boat anchor riding stock car fans...don't be surprised if they require carbs instead of FI and forget about new technology like traction control and lightweight fiber materials. Privateers will be history and only big-money corporate teams will be able to compete.

Somehow, they will get rule changes so buell and V-rods will compete...Of course the Speed/NASCAR channel will give more coverage...of an inferior series...

I think the biggest mistake the NASCAR folks have made is they forgot that fans can actually buy the bikes on Monday the pros are riding on Sunday

[MINI NSX]

I think most of these proposed rule changes are not going to fly with the manufacturers, who without them, there is no show. They need to keep Supersport for one thing. Those are usually some of the best races on any given weekend, Barber being a good example: last lap, last corner pass for the win. Superbike needs some tweaking for parity. It's boring watching Suzuki win every weekend. Super Stock was a redundant class, so it won't be missed. Even the Red Bull Rookie Cup was fun to watch this weekend!

[BlueZ6]

I'm for anything that will make the sport more popular. But I think as was said before, they just need to tweak Superbike. And what's needed as well, is better promotion and TV coverage. Look at what's going on in World SBK. How can anyone not find that racing more exciting than NASCAR?

Regarding the parity, what do you think will happen when Mladin retires and Spies goes to MotoGP? Parity maybe? It may not need as much tweaking as one might think...

[likebikes]

I think the series really needs a basis in what is selling in the market place. That is 600's and 1000's.

The premier class needs to be the biggest baddest motorcycles they make and then some. I go to races to see the best riders on the gnarliest bikes, Superbikes. Factory involvement is paramount.

The idea of trying to take I4's, I3's and twins (parallel and v's) and make some sort of parity between them is a difficult if not impossible and will lead to frequent rule adjustments.

If Big Bill France was in charge I would say that the series had vision and a chance at greatness. But he is long gone and his kids don't have anywhere near the vision he did. Ever since they took over it's been downhill for NASCAR. The "Car of Tomorrow" and the "Chase For The Cup" are huge mistakes. Viewership is down dramatically. One or two of the Big Three are talking about pulling out.

I want to see 600 Supersport and 1000cc Superbikes. Then add 2 or 3 more support classes.

I really don't care to see endurance racing. And to draw in new fans you are really talking about young adults and they generally don't have the attention span for that.

Here's the other thing, I go to Road America and Mid-Ohio every year. There is no shortage of fans there. I have been to Laguna, Road Atlanta, Barber and VIR and there was no shortage of fans there when I went. Where is the problem? If they have problems at certain tracks then cut their races and go some where else.

It remains to be seen what the factories say. I think that they will be the ones to determine how this all goes. To tell them that they have to have four riders in "Literbike" or they can't run in it is ridiculous.

Then there is the idea that you have a premier class that you call Superbike but it's slower than Literbikes, that just doesn't make sense.

I could go on but that's those are the major problems as I see it. I love to go watch these races now. I have now been to half the tracks on the circuit and had a great time at all of them. I'm worried about the future. I know that there is room for improvement and that is fine but to just throw it all out and start over is a step too far.

[willvt13]

It sounds like they're over complicating things, and trying to kill off the literbikes altogether. As I believe someone else has mentioned, I'd like to see them model world superbike and supersport, It would be a lot easier for the fans to keep track of.

Now the MotoST and red bull rookies cup will make great support classes.

I think (hope) the riders and the manufacturers will have some input into the final format decision.