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General SportbikesThis area is made for sportbikes in general. Posts that dont really belong anywhere else besides here. Questions can be answered and addressed to fully understand certain aspects. If your question is Manufacturer specific please post it there.
Posts: 2,001 Gameroom cash: $5939
Sportbike: 2004 Ducati 749S...totaled, now 2007 Honda 25th Anv Interceptor
When I got my Duc I did not know what I was getting. All I knew is that is was a rare bike. Once I started riding it and after a few months I noticed that this was no ordinary bike. This thing had a hart and a soul. I also have never had a bike so prissy in my life. If it was cold outside or rainy it would not start. It also just had a feel about it. I cannot describe it but it was weird. It was also the best handling bike that I have ever owned. I can say that when I get ready to do track days and am able to run a bike like that the way it was made for I will own another one. But until then my 749s will just be a memory.
The GSXR will beat the Ducati on the track for far less money and provide daily comuter performance with less than half the maintenance costs. That is real performance on the track and off.
Ahh.. so you're just getting back to the traditional apples & oranges debate. Everyone knows in pure displacement an I4 makes more power, but that's one piece of performance.
Tell all the privateers trying to take a stab at AMA that low maintenance cost equals real performance on the track!
Personally, I say neither one of them is any good for the street and it's motorcycle abuse to commute on them!
Ahh.. so you're just getting back to the traditional apples & oranges debate. Everyone knows in pure displacement an I4 makes more power, but that's one piece of performance.
Tell all the privateers trying to take a stab at AMA that low maintenance cost equals real performance on the track!
Personally, I say neither one of them is any good for the street and it's motorcycle abuse to commute on them!
Performance is performance with no excuses about the number of cylinders or weight or whatever. It is either faster or not.
Price is the same thing, it's either cheaper or not.
When you get a higher level of performance at a lower price it is a good thing.
The privateers cannot match the spending of the factory sponsored racers and that is why they have a hard time getting on the podium. That and skill level. The speed of your bike is directly proportional to how much you spend. We are talking about street bikes here not the factory racers which are worlds apart from their street counterparts.
Posts: 772 Gameroom cash: $19097
Sportbike: '01 Aprilia RSV Mille R
V-twins let you get on the throttle sooner. On the street vs an I-4, the skill of the riders will be the determining factor. Unless you're talking about old air cooled desmos, they're not slow.
Performance is performance with no excuses about the number of cylinders or weight or whatever. It is either faster or not.
Price is the same thing, it's either cheaper or not.
When you get a higher level of performance at a lower price it is a good thing.
The privateers cannot match the spending of the factory sponsored racers and that is why they have a hard time getting on the podium. That and skill level. The speed of your bike is directly proportional to how much you spend. We are talking about street bikes here not the factory racers which are worlds apart from their street counterparts.
Performance is the sum of a million smaller things. Faster lap times? Faster to 60mph? Faster to 10k rpm? Faster 60mph to 0? Broader powerband? Faster to turn in? Less weight? Higher compression ratio? Horsepower? Torque? Power to weight? Lean angle (those v's are pretty narrow!) ? The number of girls you can pull at the coffee shop? Which do you want to measure performance by?
Ducati can do some of those faster than a GSXR. A GSXR can do some of the others faster than a Ducati. (I think a ducati would pull more girls, but I've never tried both side by side...what do y'all think?)
More money = faster bike in racing. So you agree with me that low maintenance cost doesn't have anything to do with any kind of performance?
the 848 can go 160+ according to reviews ive read. it is supposed to be ducati's middleweight bike. That would put it in the same class as the 600cc i-4 which also go 160+. faster is faster? in what context? i would say it would be easier to be faster around the track on a bike that wasnt so dependent on perfect shifts to keep the bike in the power band coming out of corners. straight line? if thats all you care about with bikes then you should just go get a hayabusa or zx-14 and have fun.
The GSXR will beat the Ducati on the track for far less money and provide daily comuter performance with less than half the maintenance costs. That is real performance on the track and off.
That all depends on who is riding what. On the right track or road you can have your ass handed to you by the right rider riding an 250.
I loved my Ducati right up to my high side and totaling it. In the group I ride with in the back canyons I would walk all over the 600 and 1K on my 749s. Being able to get on the gas earlier and braking later. The chassy the breaks and the way it made power just worked right. That bike just fit me right.
I'm now I just got a 2007 R6 and I do miss the power curve of the V twin. Now I have to learn how to ride a i4 all over.
Lets see 7500 mile valve adjustment that costs about $1k. This is improvement over the 6000 mile interval and a huge improvement over the early Pantah desmos that required 2000 miles adjustment. I will keep my inline 4 that calls for 15k mile check and posible adjustment at around 50K miles. Arguing with Ducati owners about their bikes is about as usefull as arguing with thr HD brand or someones religion. Facts do not mater it is all perception. If it is not a timed event measured over a known distance it is just a dog and pony show.
Although I find it somewhat ironic that a Honda Veefar owner is howling bout electrical problems, havn't had any yet 1 you are lucky, 2 wait a do some more miles Voltage regs and the stators even the 1000RR's aren't immune a mate has a 04 ever 6000 miles the stator dies they think there might be a manufacturing falut withthe crank :eek .
Ducati's cost more to service due to the valve actuation system they use it is simply more time consuming to service and more involved. Dump it? well its the Gp technology (from he 60's) that makes stoners bike that bit quicker in a straight line than everyone else. As to the orginal question high end parts low volume Ducati is a bike company only a small one at that (45 000 bikes a year total production) and they run some fairly serious racing programmes to boot. The average road rider can't squeeze the performance avliable out of the modern 600 let alone touch it on a litre so sure on paper they are slower but the difference in engineering make them a bit easier to ride for some people which makes them faster in the real world.
I have nothing against ducati's, I dont think there all they are cracked up to be.
Like harley they use there name and reputation to make people "believe" there is something special about them when there is not. Nothing magic put in em folk, its a friggin Machine.
As far as MotoGP and there domination I could give a fuck less about it, Means nothing, bikes that are not simular to what we ride except they sit on two wheels and carry a name.
Well, there is that whole World Superbike thing, too.
The 1098/849 costs less, has higher overall performance and longer maintenance intervals than the 999/749 it replaced. So why exactly are we bitching about the costs of Ducati's now? You're never going to get an Audi S4 at Subaru STi prices.
Yup there is WS but there Ducs are allowed more CCs so to win with a bigger engine is kinda like a heavywieght boxer not being able to compete in his own class so he drops down a class then brags about his domination. The 1098 didnt do all that great in the Master Bike competition.
As far as the price drop it had to be done in order to compete, I dont think they are completly unreasonable now. Still high by my Idea, but hell, I wont buy new so it doesnt matter anyhow.
It really shouldnt matter, unless your racing someone who really cares?
But on the I4s having to rev to the sky thats not necissarily true eather, there have been more than a few with a great wide powerband. A cam designed for how you ride is a wonderfull thing.
Well I bought a 999 in January, so I suspect I'm in a better position to comment on it than many.
By way of background, I was a school-trained bike mechanic when I was young, working in Japanese bike shops. I've been riding for 37 years, I run a large riding school and I have strategic relationships with dealers representing all the Japanese brands and BMW. I've ridden tons of examples of each brand and two years ago I sampled the entire Harley-Buell product line.
So I've probably ridden over a hundred different examples of Japanese bikes over the last few decades and dozens of these other bikes too.
I'd always wanted a Ducati Superbike but couldn't get past the price premium. But with the bottom falling out of the used bike market, and the relative unpopularity of the 999, prices are well within what I'm willing to pay. So I bought an '04 999 first registered in '06 and still under warranty. It had 670 mile on it -- no typo. I paid $8,500 which is the going price for 999's that sell on Ebay these days.
I can say unequivocably that it is the finest road bike I've ever thrown a leg over. It just is. The suspension, brakes, handling and power are very decent, completely adequate and very well balanced. But more than that, the attention to machine detail in things like the triple tree are well above normal Japanese standards.
Is it worth $15K? Probably, but maybe not to me. But it is still the best I've ridden and the quality is clearly more than smoke and mirrors.
So you can take that for what its worth. I love that bike.
Well, I appreciate this post very much. Your credibility speaks for itself. I dont know if this is relavent or not but I remember thinking, why would someone shell out that much money for a BMW. The I bought an 02 540i 6-Speed Sport. That was the best automobile I have ever owned by a long shot (I buy a new car about every 2.5 yrs). I kick myself often for getting rid of it. I never ask anymore about spending big bucks on a BMW anymore. I don't know if its the same but I wonder if the Duc is the same kind of thing.
Well, I appreciate this post very much. Your credibility speaks for itself. I dont know if this is relavent or not but I remember thinking, why would someone shell out that much money for a BMW. The I bought an 02 540i 6-Speed Sport. That was the best automobile I have ever owned by a long shot (I buy a new car about every 2.5 yrs). I kick myself often for getting rid of it. I never ask anymore about spending big bucks on a BMW anymore. I don't know if its the same but I wonder if the Duc is the same kind of thing.
Its in your mind, BMWs are taxi's in Europe. They cant wait to get ahold of the Chevy's, Dodge's ect over there.
It really shouldnt matter, unless your racing someone who really cares? 
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