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They are trying to take BIKES, but not CARS in Florida!
Article published Jan 29, 2008
Gerald Ensley: Bikers feel singled out by legislator's proposal
Gerald Ensley
The View From Here
Imagine you got a ticket for speeding and the state confiscated your car and suspended your license for 10 years. You'd howl, right?
Well, that's why motorcycle riders are protesting a proposed legislative bill that threatens exactly that.
The bill originally proposed to take away the motorcycle of anyone charged with reckless driving or driving 30 mph over the speed limit. It was significantly amended after a meeting of the House Infrastructure Committee on Jan. 10. But it still proposes that motorcyclists forfeit their vehicles if convicted of driving 50 mph over the speed limit for a third time.
Sure, it seems unlikely anyone would commit the same offense three times if it meant giving up his or her vehicle. But motorcyclists — and anyone with an appreciation for civil liberties — can find even the possibility of forfeiture grossly unfair.
"The problem is picking out a specific type of vehicle," said Don Lanham, the Leon County director of health and human services and an avid motorcyclist. "Cars, trucks, SUVs who violate the same laws do not face the same harsh penalties. That's discrimination, period."
House Bill 137 is the brainchild of Rep. Carlos Lopez-Cantera, a second-term legislator from Miami. Lopez-Cantera was motivated by the rash of "stunting" he witnessed in South Florida. Atop high-powered sports bike-style motorcycles — known colloquially as "crotch rockets" for the nearly prone manner in which cyclists ride them — he saw riders pop wheelies, ride sidesaddle and do "stoppies" (quick stops that cause a bike to rise up on its front wheel) at high speeds in traffic.
Lopez-Cantera took his concern to the Florida Highway Patrol, which took him on two ride-alongs. Troopers told him stories of sports bike riders pulling alongside troopers, "flipping them off, popping a wheelie and racing away because they know they can't be caught." He watched as troopers managed to catch and ticket a few stunt riders — all of whom were young men riding Japanese-made sports bikes capable of speeds up to 150 mph — who were unrepentant about their offenses.
"People are using the highway like their own playground," said Lopez-Cantera. "These kids obviously have no respect for the law. There is a need to make penalties severe enough to get their attention."
Lopez-Cantera, only 34 himself, originally crafted a very strict bill: Confiscation of a motorcycle for the first offense of reckless driving or driving more than 30 mph over the speed limit. The howls of protest from motorcycle riders plus discussions in the House committee meeting led him to re-write the bill.
Lopez-Cantera retained language that mandates motorcycle riders keep both wheels on the pavement at all times and ride a motorcycle with one leg on each side of the bike. But he eliminated the term "reckless driving," after learning even police find the charge too easy to apply.
Most significantly, he raised the speeding violation to 50 mph over the speed limit and installed graduated penalties: $1,000 for the first offense, $2,500 and one year's suspended license for the second offense. Only with a third offense can a rider's bike be confiscated and the rider's license suspended for 10 years (though he or she can still have a license to operate a car).
Lopez-Cantera insisted his bill is aimed only at stunt riders on sports bikes. He doesn't believe it would affect the average rider of Harley, Triumph, Ducati and other motorcycles.
"I've got nothing against those folks," he said. "If I could separate them out of the bill, I would. But I can't."
Lobbyist Winn Peeples, who represents Florida motorcycle dealers and manufacturers, agreed stunt riding is a significant safety problem, particularly in South Florida. He said his industry supports giving law enforcement "more help" in dealing with stunt riders.
But he said forfeiture of a rider's motorcycle is not the answer — at least not if it's motorcycles only.
"We think (forfeiting motorcycles) is discriminatory," Peeples said. "We'd like to see that leveled out. Frankly, we don't care which way it's leveled out. I think automobile drivers who drive aggressively need to be fined, and if they don't get the message the third time, hit them where it hurts: Take away their vehicle."
That could be the next step. Though the House Infrastructure Committee tabled House Bill 137 for now, several legislators expressed support for an "aggressive driving" bill for all vehicles. Legislators suggested increasing fines for all excessive speeding and reckless-driving violations — and requiring forfeiture of cars and motorcycles after the third offense.
Such a bill could surface in this year's Legislature and produce even more protest.
I agree with the Dukes of Hazzard comment below...people caught in their cars doing 110 in a 60 for the 3rd time, or DRUNK DRIVING, for the 3rd time, do not lose their CAR...so why are they doing it to bikes, and the little miami asshole who put the bill forward even said he's trying to target a specific set of bikes but couldn't word the law to single just them out so he had to put everybody.
Who VOTED this guy in office? Does he have any concept of what equal rights under the law suppose to mean? Fine to come down harsh on 3rd time violators...but do it for ALL vehicles.
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"Be careful supporting forfeiture of Any PRIVATE property.
Forfeiture is a dangerous new trend in our government. There are over 200 federal forfeiture laws are attached to non-drug related crimes and in America today, anyone can become a victim of a police confiscation raid. Every state police department — and most local ones — are now confiscating property, often without even charging the person for a crime. Financially strapped states and municipalities are now making next year's planned confiscations a growing item in their budgets. As state and local government budgets are squeezed, they rely more and more on direct confiscation of property for revenue. Incredible as it sounds, civil asset forfeiture laws allow the government to seize property without charging anyone with a crime. The concept of being "innocent until proven guilty" is turned upsidedown. Under these laws, your property can be taken until you prove yourself innocent. Usually this is so expensive and time consuming, most people never get their property back.
Posted by: rudy on Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:37 pm
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I agree. The idea that people riding sport bikes are going to pull over to let their bikes be confiscated is laughable.
There is NO WAY some patrol car is going to be able to even stay within sight of one of our bikes, let alone pull it over.
If this passes, Florida's roads are going to look like a scene out of "The Dukes of Hazzard".
But I'm open to compromise. I'll support confiscating motorcycles of excessive speeders, if the bill also makes provisions to confiscate the vehicle of someone caught driving drunk. I mean, it's not even close when it comes to who kills the most innocent people on the road. But since the rich & powerful make up their share of the drunk drivers, they'd never let that provision pass.
Ride, baby, ride.....
Posted by: TheGoldenRam on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:55 pm
I suppose I needn't mention that there are a shyte-load of cars sold every day that are capable of doing 150mph? But, apparently, someone needs to mention it to the omnipotent asshole who managed to get himself re-elected.
Also, considering the FHP, and their ride-along, managed to pull over those maniacal motorcyclists, I seriously doubt they were doing 150....
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I like what France did. Make a park just for stunt riders. Somewhere where all the bikes, and people can go watch, and stunt in a safe, controled enviroment. It would be a lot less hassle.
Lopez-Cantera insisted his bill is aimed only at stunt riders on sports bikes. He doesn't believe it would affect the average rider of Harley, Triumph, Ducati and other motorcycles.
"I've got nothing against those folks," he said. "If I could separate them out of the bill, I would. But I can't.
Don't ever believe a legislator who says a law will only be applied to certain groups. Once passed, prosecutors consider it another "tool in the box" and will apply it as broadly as it can be construed.
I suppose I needn't mention that there are a shyte-load of cars sold every day that are capable of doing 150mph? But, apparently, someone needs to mention it to the omnipotent asshole who managed to get himself re-elected.
Also, considering the FHP, and their ride-along, managed to pull over those maniacal motorcyclists, I seriously doubt they were doing 150....
Ah, you see the problem.
I'll be the first to say there are a lot of stunters in south florida...shoot, the first time i was ever on the back of a bike was in Miami, and the guy who gave me my first (BIKE) ride wheelied with me on the back, and now here you see me...but they act like someone can't wheelie a Triumph Daytona? Or can't speed on a Harley? Or like drunk drivers haven't killed more people than bikes...and by the time they kill someone it's usually not their first DUI!
So, as usual, the "mad tyte stuntaz" are making life shitty for the rest of us. What else is new? If these guys/girls would pull their heads out of their asses and realize that doing this shit on public streets is NOT OK, we wouldn't have this problem.
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here, but it's just my opinion, take it for what it is.
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I like what France did. Make a park just for stunt riders. Somewhere where all the bikes, and people can go watch, and stunt in a safe, controled enviroment. It would be a lot less hassle.
I was thinking along those lines. Didn't know about France, but i thought "why don't the bike companies down there get together and make a Stunt/Race world or something that is big and spacious and lets people get their urges out?
Florida is so flat...I've been on 95 in my old car just eating up road like candy...when people are leaving I-10 up top of florida and get on I-75 south...EVERYBODY flies 85 and 90mph (and I'm talking 4 wheel vehicles)...I know there are riders out there that when the horizon is visible for MILES out...it's like a call to arms or something, you want to get low on the bike and get on it... And for the stunters all that visibility just begs for a stunt...
I don't know about the geniuses/magicians who do it in MIAMI traffic, but on open FLAT roads it's easy to forget the speed you're going...
I like how he threw in Triumph and Ducati next to Harley. We're all old farts with big beards and lots of leather, I guess?
I just saw a TV show on Speed (I think) about a team of stunt riders that all had MV Agusta F4s.
Just proves that any type of specific legislation is f'ing retarded.
lol you're close. You're not all old farts with big beards and lots of leather, but you ARE mostly white.
Cubans are notorious for their general snobbishness in south florida...as well as for their domination of politics down there...wouldn't be surprised if he's cuban, and wouldn't be surprised if he's also blaming the "mad tyte stuntaz" for everything that goes wrong in the bike world and on the road in general, never mind that the focus should be on anyone who does it, in any vehicle...
but on open FLAT roads it's easy to forget the speed you're going...
Yeah, I find myself sometimes forgetting where my speedometer is too. One second I'm doing 60mph, and the next I look down and I'm going 150!
Are you serious? Anyone with a proper equilibrium can tell what speed they are going. I've been riding for a LONG time (coming up on 21 years now), and I've never had a problem where I couldn't tell the difference between 100mph and 70mph.
__________________
If you want me to "find Jesus" I'm gonna need a shovel and a map - Me
Yeah, I find myself sometimes forgetting where my speedometer is too. One second I'm doing 60mph, and the next I look down and I'm going 150!
Are you serious? Anyone with a proper equilibrium can tell what speed they are going. I've been riding for a LONG time (coming up on 21 years now), and I've never had a problem where I couldn't tell the difference between 100mph and 70mph.
Are YOU serious? road hypnosis follows the same principle, and that has been accepted as a real event. People get so use to seeing the same formation of road, that they get in a daze and don't realize when foot is on the pedal too hard, or doze off and don't even realize...
And the difference between 70 and 85 might not be that easy to tell, but if the speed markings suddenly changed from 65 to 50...all of a sudden you're 35 miles over the speed limit on that same flat road, and that extra 15 mph is a WHOLE different type of ticket.
And yes, you riding for a long time, you SHOULD be more sensitive to what different speeds feel like. We (or I) have seen posts from guys right here on the board who reported having trouble feeling when they were going too fast when they just got into riding and got comfortable past first gear...what I am saying is not news firefighter. It's not incredible either.
All I'm saying is on a flat open road, it is not difficult to glance down at your speedometer. There is ZERO excuse for speeding. If a cop pulls you over, and you try to give him a "road hypnosis" excuse, he is going to laugh out loud as he writes your ticket.
edit:
Back to the subject. Don't blame this problem on lawmakers, legislators, the government, the president, or anyone else except the motorcyclists who are making us look bad.
The guy even flat out identified the problem, the stunters. If it wasn't for these jackasses doing stuff like this in the public eye, there wouldn't be a problem.
It's not exclusive to bikes either. They have been cracking down on street racing for some time, increasing fines, mandatory jail sentences, impound, etc, etc. I view these stunters exactly the same way I do street racers. They are causing a public disturbance that is sometimes endagering the lives of innocent people.
We are all so quick to blame anyone but the people who are causing the problem. A kid shoots up a school....blame media violence. Someone robs a store, blame the parents. Stop shifting blame around. This problem is caused by the stunters. If you want the problem to go away, do something about it, something besides shifting-blame.
__________________
If you want me to "find Jesus" I'm gonna need a shovel and a map - Me
Last edited by firefighter81 : 02-17-2008 at 10:37 PM.
All I'm saying is on a flat open road, it is not difficult to glance down at your speedometer. There is ZERO excuse for speeding. If a cop pulls you over, and you try to give him a "road hypnosis" excuse, he is going to laugh out loud as he writes your ticket.
edit:
Back to the subject. Don't blame this problem on lawmakers, legislators, the government, the president, or anyone else except the motorcyclists who are making us look bad.
The guy even flat out identified the problem, the stunters. If it wasn't for these jackasses doing stuff like this in the public eye, there wouldn't be a problem.
It's not exclusive to bikes either. They have been cracking down on street racing for some time, increasing fines, mandatory jail sentences, impound, etc, etc. I view these stunters exactly the same way I do street racers. They are causing a public disturbance that is sometimes endagering the lives of innocent people.
We are all so quick to blame anyone but the people who are causing the problem. A kid shoots up a school....blame media violence. Someone robs a store, blame the parents. Stop shifting blame around. This problem is caused by the stunters. If you want the problem to go away, do something about it, something besides shifting-blame.
i think you are missing the point. if STUNTERS are the problem, then why are we talking about SPEED instead of STUNTS in this law?
If speed is the issue why are we singling out BIKES instead of ALL speeding vehicles for this law?
That is the issue. He doesn't want stunters, you misread him. He wants the japanese sportbike riders. You think sportbikes of non-japanese make are never stunted too? But he made sure to state which specific set he cares about.
They are trying to take BIKES, but not CARS in Florida!
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