If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above.
You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.
To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
General SportbikesThis area is made for sportbikes in general. Posts that dont really belong anywhere else besides here. Questions can be answered and addressed to fully understand certain aspects. If your question is Manufacturer specific please post it there.
Why would you want to break in your engine with "cheap stuff"?
the original idea for using the "cheap stuff" for engine break-in lies with this theory (decide for yourself how true it may be):
some engines come from the factory with tiny scores on the contact parts (pistons, cylinders, whatever) with the idea that, over the first couple thousand miles or so, the engine will "sand" itself down to a tolerance that they never could have achieved at the factory. they also believe that dino oil is not as good a lubricant as synthetic. so, if they use a regular dino oil for engine break-in, they will accomplish the proper break-in of the engine by allowing the oil to NOT lubricate those parts that are scored as much as a synthetic would. they further believe that if they use a synthetic oil, the engine would take a very long time to properly break-in. tens of thousands of miles or more.
at least, that's the theory.
we bought a 2007 vw rabbit in november and it came from the factory with a full synthetic motor oil in it. they said at the stealership to "go easy" on it for the first 600 miles or so for proper engine break-in. they either know what they're doing or they're completely full of shit...
s3aturnr
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenix_Rider
When in motion, squids can be observed to "park" on corner entry and abuse the throttle on any available straight.
the original idea for using the "cheap stuff" for engine break-in lies with this theory (decide for yourself how true it may be):
some engines come from the factory with tiny scores on the contact parts (pistons, cylinders, whatever) with the idea that, over the first couple thousand miles or so, the engine will "sand" itself down to a tolerance that they never could have achieved at the factory. they also believe that dino oil is not as good a lubricant as synthetic. so, if they use a regular dino oil for engine break-in, they will accomplish the proper break-in of the engine by allowing the oil to NOT lubricate those parts that are scored as much as a synthetic would. they further believe that if they use a synthetic oil, the engine would take a very long time to properly break-in. tens of thousands of miles or more.
at least, that's the theory.
s3aturnr
I will follow my factory's recomendation and leave the "break-in oil" in my bike for 500 miles. I will then switch to Mobil 1 Full synthetic motorcylce oil.
The difference between Mobil1 motorcycle synthetic blends and car synthetic blends is : Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.
This way, I will be sure to have a proper break in (won't take 10k miles), and will not have clutch slippage that has been reported by some who use synthetic.
Has anyone ever actually have a motorcycle engine fail because of an issue with either type of oil? I'd say as long as you change it on a somewhat regular schedule, The engine will far outlast the bike. I have personally used Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 and that engine spun a bearing and threw a rod out the front of the block. I don't think the oil was the reason for the failure, nor do I think that a different oil would have prevented it.
__________________
"If Japan, Italy, and Germany did product development the same way that Harley Davidson does, there wouldn't be Honda, Ducati, or BMW bikes. There wouldn't be VCRs, mini-TVs, or Sony Walkmans. We'd all still be listening to wind up phonographs and watching black and white TV through vacuum tubes. And we'd be paying thousands of dollars for it and each one would be named "American Heritage Edition FGXLR TV" or something equally lame." Christopher T. Shields
Sorry, just wandering if anyone HAS had an engine fail, and could link the failure directly to a problem the oil has caused, or should have prevented. Hell, has anyone has ever had an engine fail, for any reason?
__________________
"If Japan, Italy, and Germany did product development the same way that Harley Davidson does, there wouldn't be Honda, Ducati, or BMW bikes. There wouldn't be VCRs, mini-TVs, or Sony Walkmans. We'd all still be listening to wind up phonographs and watching black and white TV through vacuum tubes. And we'd be paying thousands of dollars for it and each one would be named "American Heritage Edition FGXLR TV" or something equally lame." Christopher T. Shields
Sorry, just wandering if anyone HAS had an engine fail, and could link the failure directly to a problem the oil has caused, or should have prevented. Hell, has anyone has ever had an engine fail, for any reason?
Posts: 298
Casino Cash: $6037
Sportbike: 2008 ZZR 600 in Blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by umairhashmi
These cars come with synthetics straight from the factory
Aston Martin
Bentley Amage and Bentley
Chevrolet Corvette C6 and Z06
Viper SRT-10
All Porsche vehicles
Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
Mercedes SLR
Mitsubishi EVO III
Pontiac GTO
Also VW Jetta, GTI, Passat, Eos.
__________________
SOLD--2004 FZ6 (Silver). Sold after 75,100 trouble free miles.
2008 ZZR 600 Plasma Blue. So far just grip puppies.
the original idea for using the "cheap stuff" for engine break-in lies with this theory (decide for yourself how true it may be):
some engines come from the factory with tiny scores on the contact parts (pistons, cylinders, whatever) with the idea that, over the first couple thousand miles or so, the engine will "sand" itself down to a tolerance that they never could have achieved at the factory. they also believe that dino oil is not as good a lubricant as synthetic. so, if they use a regular dino oil for engine break-in, they will accomplish the proper break-in of the engine by allowing the oil to NOT lubricate those parts that are scored as much as a synthetic would. they further believe that if they use a synthetic oil, the engine would take a very long time to properly break-in. tens of thousands of miles or more.
at least, that's the theory.
we bought a 2007 vw rabbit in november and it came from the factory with a full synthetic motor oil in it. they said at the stealership to "go easy" on it for the first 600 miles or so for proper engine break-in. they either know what they're doing or they're completely full of shit...
s3aturnr
what i wanna know is, how thick is the oil gap in the hydrodynamic bearing, and how much it changes after break in? curiosity's sake...
this would also explain frequent oil change recommendations when new.
Sorry, just wandering if anyone HAS had an engine fail, and could link the failure directly to a problem the oil has caused, or should have prevented. Hell, has anyone has ever had an engine fail, for any reason?
I see it all the time but, then again my crew rides more miles in a month than most ride in a year. Engines seize from being spun at the rev limiter too long, cylinder walls lose compression from worn out oil and friction, oil starvation from oil filters and particals floating in your oil and clutch fibers clogging. The list goes on. If you don't push your bike you should have nothing to worry about. The most critical period of a motor that determines how long a motor will last IMHO are the first 500-1500 miles. You wear out a motor too early and you lose whp earlier and lose compression but, most won't notice that because they don't push their bikes.
I have had people with good intentions tell me i should wait till my bike has at least 4k miles on it before i start using synthetic oil.Oh really? If thats the case then how come top of the line corvettes and vipers come with synthetics straight from the factory with a brand new engine???
I agree, some people get too worked up about the oil that is used.
Right now I have Dino Mobil One "non-energy" conservation in my motorcycle's. Plus I have a GM filter on them too...LOL
I see it all the time but, then again my crew rides more miles in a month than most ride in a year. Engines seize from being spun at the rev limiter too long, cylinder walls lose compression from worn out oil and friction, oil starvation from oil filters and particals floating in your oil and clutch fibers clogging. The list goes on. If you don't push your bike you should have nothing to worry about. The most critical period of a motor that determines how long a motor will last IMHO are the first 500-1500 miles. You wear out a motor too early and you lose whp earlier and lose compression but, most won't notice that because they don't push their bikes.
I take it the damage you refer to is from stunting or racing. So then, would you say that the failure you have seen would have been prevented by using a different oil? My point is that I don't think it REALY matters what kind of oil you use, if you abuse your bike that's one thing, but if you take any care of it at all, under "normal" riding conditions, the engine won't fail due to the oil's lack of performance.
__________________
"If Japan, Italy, and Germany did product development the same way that Harley Davidson does, there wouldn't be Honda, Ducati, or BMW bikes. There wouldn't be VCRs, mini-TVs, or Sony Walkmans. We'd all still be listening to wind up phonographs and watching black and white TV through vacuum tubes. And we'd be paying thousands of dollars for it and each one would be named "American Heritage Edition FGXLR TV" or something equally lame." Christopher T. Shields
Used synthetic oil on my track bike. The clutch slipped. Changed clutch no more slip. Bike had 30,000 miles on clutch, therefore synthetic oils suck and will make hair grow on the palms of you hands. Nuff said.
I take it the damage you refer to is from stunting or racing. So then, would you say that the failure you have seen would have been prevented by using a different oil? My point is that I don't think it REALY matters what kind of oil you use, if you abuse your bike that's one thing, but if you take any care of it at all, under "normal" riding conditions, the engine won't fail due to the oil's lack of performance.
I guess my point is that everything breaks and yes all factors matter. Your bike is only as strong as it's weakest link. I don't consider riding hard on the street racing. Oil does make a pretty big difference and yes IMHO the oil made a difference. Less friction equals less engine wear. Why would synthetic oils run about 8-12 degrees cooler. Why would bikes that run on the dyno make a few more whp using synthetic oils. There's an obvious reason. This is coming from an 04' R1 rider. Those bikes run hot but, not with synthetic oil. So in conclusion what's "normal" ? Less than 1000 miles a month normal? There is no definition in our matter. As long as you don't ride in the red of your tach that's normal. If is wasn't your rev limiter would be lowered. Engine failure does occur because of low performance oil being used. It may not be as often as heard because look at the average life span of bikes. It is usually wrecked in less than 10k. Anyways this is becoming a rant. Pull apart a few motors and maybe you will understand.
I have had people with good intentions tell me i should wait till my bike has at least 4k miles on it before i start using synthetic oil.Oh really? If thats the case then how come top of the line corvettes and vipers come with synthetics straight from the factory with a brand new engine???
so.... should we wait to swap to synthetic or not? that wasn't one of the myths in that article.
What about switching too late? i have 10k now, should i switch, or stick to dyno for the rest of the engines life.
My point is that I don't think it REALY matters what kind of oil you use, if you abuse your bike that's one thing, but if you take any care of it at all, under "normal" riding conditions, the engine won't fail due to the oil's lack of performance.
Linear Mode
