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FZ6If you’re looking for one bike to perform a multitude of missions, look no further.
Take it from Cycle World* Magazine - “For a more advanced rider looking for a bike to do it all, there is no other choice.”
Throttle Position Sensor Issues (Are you Experiencing Poor Idle/Mileage, or Stalls?)
mod edit: Since this has got to be such a lengthy thread, and this is the largest single issue that we deal with on our FZ6, I am going to attempt to summurize all the useful information from this thread in a single post. This it in attempt to make it easier for members to get the information they need easier for this issue. I hijacked this first post of this thread to make it easy to find. -jcaesar
Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) Issue Summary
What is the TPS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner-FZ6
The TPS Sensor is just a potensiometer.
It is actually a variable resistor just like the one found on a Volume control on your stereo system.
The the low side gives abrupt and unpredictable off-spec values, because it is this part of the potensiometer that is mostly used. Simply, this part of the potensiometer is worn out!
In fact Segue00 measured the loss of contact in that area.
The same phenomenon happens when a worn Volume potensiometer causes noise on your speakers.
I am not sure that this is the cause for the "binary" throttle response.
The service manual says that the TPS angle (Page 7-31) should be adjusted so as the TPS voltage should be between 0.63-0.73Volt.
So having a healthy, and properly adjusted TPS, we should measure 0.63 to 0.73 Volts when iddling.
If the value was 0 Volts, yeap that could cause that "on-off" response.
I've been thinking about this for a week now and can't figure it out. So someone explain this to me or point out the error in my thinking.
Now, your TPS is desinged to tell the ECU how much your twisting the throttle so that the ECU knows how much fuel your injectors should spit out.
The TPS puts out a steady voltage at idle and increases as your turn the throttle. The voltage coming out of the TPS is translated into a signal by the ECU as to how much gas to inject.
At an idle your TSP puts out a steady .7 volts (about) which translates into throttle closed. Not 100% sure what the voltage is for fully open so let's just say 3volts = fully open. So more volts = throttle open more which = more fuel injected ...... right?????
Now let's say your TPS fails for some reason, doesn't matter what. According to the manual the fail safe for a TPS is to fix it at fully open ..... in this state the bike is still ridable.
But now the ECU thinks that the throttle is fully open so wouldn't it inject the amount of fuel = to WOT?? If the ECU thought the throttle was fully open wouldn't your RPM's stay high even if you let the throttle grip go?? Or would it still be injecting the max full for WOT but because the throttle bodies aren't open the fuel air mix is off so the result would just be really poor gas milage and maybe some julty riding caused by unspent fuel due to incomplete combustion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Honda's Response
Hummm… where to start…
OK… the TPS is only a pawn in the fuel injection game. The real leader is the MAP sensor. (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Yamaha calls it the “Intake Air Pressure Sensor.” This little device looks at manifold vacuum. The manifold vacuum is compared to atmospheric pressure by the ECU, and this will give the ECU the Air density of the incoming air charge. The air density, along with the engine RPM with be taken together, and the ECU will look up the injector pulse length on a look up table. (doing it thousands of time a second) Oh… I should also say that the air intake temp also plays a small part in this too.
The only thing that the TPS is really doing is letting the ECU know if you are opening, or closing the throttle. This is important because on a modern, high performance engine, as you quickly open the throttle you need more fuel than the apparent lode will dictate. (map and rpm look up) This is know as “Tip In Fuel” or as it was known on a carburetor… “The accelerator Pump.” Without the tip in fuel… the engine would (minimum) cough and flame out. (too much air) At worst… the engine would have HORIBLE detonation, (pre-ignition) and burn holes in the tops of the pistons, crush the ring lands, bend the rods, or crush the crank bearings. (lot’s-O-bad stuff)
So… when the ECU can no longer reliably read the TPS, the ECU goes into “limp mode.” Limp mode on our FZ6’s is basically running it in it’s Warm-up mode. The added fuel of the warm-up cycle will keep all the bad stuff listed above from happening. (it’s like in permanent acceleration or "choke on" mode)
OK… we don’t like the crappy fuel economy, the smelly exhaust, or the fouled sparkplugs… but they are cheap compared to a blown engine. Personally I think once it can’t read the TPS it should run a bit leaner, but limit the RPM’s to around 7k.
1) Although replacing a faulty TPS may solve the problem, it might be something else that causes the TPS to fail.
2) Some bikes had multiple TPS replacements.
3) Most bikes did not have this problem.
4) Some bikes reportedly that had the TPS symptoms did not get fixed by just replacing the TPS.
5) Going into diagnostics every now and then and making sure that the spec value on the throttle of 16 - 100 percent does not change is one way to monitor whether your TPS is changing.
6) It's still a crap shoot, and the odds are that very few throttle position sensors becomes faulty. At least going by the sampling in this forum and on the current number of complaints in NHTSA reports.
7) At least 1 TPS was installed incorrectly upon replacement. Something to do with the o-ring placement.
8) The original TPS had been superceeded by a revision and carries a new part number.
9) So, if you're going to replace your TPS, at least make sure they don't put in a TPS with the old part number. Or ask for the TPS for a 2006 release model or later if you have an '04 or an '05.
What Actions You Should Take to get Yamaha to Address This Issue:
Contact Yamaha Customer Service. We need as many people as possible to contact Yamaha about this issue. Hopefully they will address it and issue a recall.
File a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA) - For those that are in the U.S. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems
For those not in the U.S, please file with your local Traffic Safety Adminstration.
Sending your faulty TPS to segue00. segue00 is tearing down the faulty TPS and trying to find the root cause. So far he only has a couple, and hasn't been able to nail down the exact root cause with the few he has.
Also, Jamez is collecting details to submit to the NHTSA and Yamaha to see if we can push this thing to at least a Technical Bulletin if not a Recall.
So, if your TPS has been replaced (either by yourself or by a dealer), please PM Jaez the following information:
1.) Your Name, City, State/Province, Country
2.) Your FZ6 year
3.) When was your TPS replaced
4.) Who replaced your TPS (you/non-dealer or dealer)
5.) The Part# of your replaced TPS
6.) Attach a copy of your service receipt (if you can/have it)
7.) Send me any additional information that I have not asked for that you think would be helpful for this cause
If you have any questions about gathering all this info to send to Yamaha or NHTSA, please PM Jamez.
What can I do to convince the Dealer to replace the TPS if they say there is nothing wrong with it.
The dealer may not be willing to replace it under warranty, because the fault code is not logged. You can force a fault code by disconnecting the TPS, and then turning on the bike. It should log a Fault Code 15.
Also, have them test the resistance of the TPS and make sure that it is within spec.
What part TPS part number is the latest one that I should install to correct the issue.
The TPS should be replaced with the 3rd Generation part no. 5FL-85885-02-00.
I think there might be a problem with that part on our bikes. I'm not sure but I believe the TPS is causing my bike to occasionally stall/drop rpm's every once in awhile. I have read others complaining of these symptoms on the forums and I read about another having to replace that part.
I am with you on this one, I left the bike at the Yami Stealership for 3 days and they said that they could not find anything wrong, with the codes that is.....go figure.
So I said, just give me the bike back and hopefully it breaks down completly and you have to come tow the thing. They said that they had spoken to Yamaha Corp. and they have not come up with anything yet.....oh well.
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What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
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i had that problem too at mileage less than 5k. ya.money agent had to came tow the thing away. replace a new throttle body. Problem solve. now as good as new>> reaching 15k
I called the dealership today and they said that they spoke to Yamaha Corp. and Yami requested to replace the ignigtion switch and the TPS and it will be in next week. So hopefully this crap goes away sooner than later.
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What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Stalls, rpm drops, lots of highway rpm stumbles. Couldn't get them to find/fix the problem.
Then one day it stalled and on start up, the check engine light came on for a couple of seconds while still running. That evidently finally left a code. They said they found one TPS code. Replaced it and then all is fine
If you are still limping by with a bad one or suspect a bad one. While cruising just hit neutral, let it stall, ignition off for a moment, clutch drop start up. It resets itself and was fine for a while intermittantly?
Hope they go good on it for you. Just tell them they have had lots of bad ones and just replace the TPS for ya'.
I take the bike to the dealership tomorrow so they can replace the TPS and the ignition sensor, they called Yamaha and they said it was the ignition sensor, but will replace the TPS just for the hek of it, damn right..........if you all have this problem just hassle the delaer to call Yamaha. I DID.....
By the way I have 5280miles on the bike so far, so that might be a round about number for this to happen. Good Luck
p.s. they did not find a error code....but will fix it anyway.
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What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
while coming back from Colorado this past monday, I was experiencing hesitation while accelerating after engine braking. I'm personally suspecting the TPS as well, but I'll have to test it to make certain.
on another note, anyone go over 10000 miles yet? I have about 9600 miles on her now.
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2004 Yamaha FZ6 - Galaxy Blue
FAZR6's Fender Eliminator Kit, Laser Extreme Quad Pipes, BMC Air Filter, Puig Light Smoke Windscreen (Thanks DefyInertia!), R6 Front Fork/Brakes Upgrade, Dual Braided Front Brake Lines, FS6 Sliders, Givi Monokey sidecases, Dual Headlight Mod (based on WTV's method), Oxford Heaterz Heated Grips, Watsen Designs Flushmount LED Signals, Bubmrtn's DIY LED Taillight Kit
Any chance Yamaha will do a recall if this is so predominant?
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Got the bike back in about 4hrs, after the install of the TPS an the Ignigtion sensor, well it was the whole ignition cause I got a set of new keys for the ignition, which now I have one for the gas cap and the ignition, but the bike rides as if it were new.........without holding down those rpms.
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What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Yeah, mine is doing it too and it is really pissing me off!! It stalled 16 times on a 100 mile ride and so far Yami said that thet can find nothing wrong. I will keep on them until it is fixed. I talked them into calling the factory a second time. Wish me luck, I am sure I will need it because they said that Yami told them that they know nothing of this problem, BS I say!!!!
Where would one go to find TSBs for motorcycles if there was one issued for our bikes? I didn't look very hard but google was on loam for them for motorcycles in general, all the listings were just for cars.
Where would one go to find TSBs for motorcycles if there was one issued for our bikes? I didn't look very hard but google was on loam for them for motorcycles in general, all the listings were just for cars.
Your best bet is to continue to hound the stealership, the bike is under warranty for atleast a year......I will try to find out from my dealer as to what Yamaha Corp. told them and pass it on to you guys....I know that Yamaha said to replace the Ignition and dealer said we will do the TPS for the hek of it........yeah right...
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What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog.
Throttle Position Sensor Issues (Are you Experiencing Poor Idle/Mileage, or Stalls?)
replace a new throttle body. Problem solve. now as good as new>> reaching 15k 
