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FZ6If you’re looking for one bike to perform a multitude of missions, look no further.
Take it from Cycle World* Magazine - “For a more advanced rider looking for a bike to do it all, there is no other choice.”
Posts: 80
Casino Cash: $250
Sportbike: Currently a Triumph America
A final note (I hope) to my battery saga. After the Battery Tender turned green, I measured the volatge and it was 12.5V. So now thanks to Moldmaker's experiment I know to stay at min 2000 rpms if stuck in traffic. Yamaha should pay him for the research.
Since now I have a dongle, I guess I could connect a semi permanent voltmeter. But that would drain charge when the bike is off unless its connected to the ignition switch.
I was being a wee bit sarcastic. Sorry. Old Habit.
Given the way these engines & accessories are designed, it is pretty much dictated by the space available and I guess the extra power wasn't needed in the R6.
My arthritic hands need electric heat and I'll be selling my FZ-6 this fall for one reason.... the alternator doesn't deliver the amps to keep my old arthritic body comfortable in cooler driving conditions. I went out today (about 53 degrees) and needed both the heated grips and the gloves. Yes, I am a wimp but it's not my personal choice. It's the cards I've been dealt and I refuse to sit at home when I can work a solution... in this case my FZ6 disappoints. But it's the only one!
Moldmaker, Thanks for doing the research and posting the data. Some useful data for all of us.
Snap, hate to see you go to a different bike. Are there any other reasonable alternatives? How difficult is adding a stonger alternator and/or deeper battery? I guess every bike has its compromises. We hope you'll at least stick around the forum if you find a replacement.
Hi guys, I' m from Greece, and this is my 1st post I guess!
Had the same problem with ImOK, the previous week, stuck in traffic and after a quick stop the FZ6 couldn't start. Trying to find an answer (my mechanic was on vacations) I tryied to check myshelf all the circuit, but couldn't point the problem. I was running with the high beam always on, in short rides for a period of a month or so (had an operation and some stitches so had to be carefull-couldn't stop riding though), so I guess this drained the battery eventually and gave me this bad moment.
The bike is Ok after a recharge, but I have this underlying fear that the battery will drain again, but I hope I'll get over it.
Thanks for the nice thought, Pretender (or are you living up to your name??!!)
I am not paranoid...
I'm gonna be a contender in the FZ-6 Iron Butt Rally this year. I won't be doing any trans-continental journeys so I may not win! I'm enjoying the heck out of my bike so I'm not leaving this forum anytime soon (I heard those groans from some of you.)
Believe it or not, I have a friend in the medical supply business. She is looking into custom molding a battery under the seat. My gut feel is that will be way more expensive than it is worth. I might drop a battery in the tail bag and run the clothing off that. When I start getting cold... go home! I told her husband that I was thinking of a K1200ST and he gave me "the look" and said get some more miles under your belt.
Thanks again... working on the solution to my problems. Like most problems, it just takes time and money.
__________________
Life is too short to live slow.
I hate to say it but I'm cruising e-Bay and cycletrader regularly. Love my FZ6... need more electrical power. Yes I'm a wimp.
Considering the dark side? Becoming a Stromer?
"with high beams on and under average conditions, there's at least 10A/120W of capacity left over from the DL650's 380W alternator."
Seriously though, you should look into hand guards for your FZ. I left home this morning on my Strom and it was -5şC (23şF). I rode for 1-1/2 hours before my first stop. I don't have grip heaters (yet) and my hands were still warm just using decent gloves. The hand guards really keep the wind off and would probably mean your grip heaters would be enough to keep you comfortable.
__________________
*
2006 DL1000 V-Strom
Last edited by Heavy FZ6 : 04-02-2006 at 09:35 PM.
If you have 12.5V, check the horn.
If the horn doesn't work, you had a lose wire, maybe on the batery. the voltage is not enough to turn the starter. u need POWER for that. if the wire is loose, the small contact area is not enough to give it the poer it needs. the horn is a good test. if the horn is working, check the wires on the starter.
the battery cannot be dead because of the traffic under no circumstances.
if you want i can leave mine to run at idle speed all night, high beam on, and i'll prove that the battery will be okay tomorrow. and idle is at 800-900 rpm
Posts: 80
Casino Cash: $250
Sportbike: Currently a Triumph America
Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheus
Hi guys, I' m from Greece, and this is my 1st post I guess!
Had the same problem with ImOK, the previous week, stuck in traffic and after a quick stop the FZ6 couldn't start. Trying to find an answer (my mechanic was on vacations) I tryied to check myshelf all the circuit, but couldn't point the problem. I was running with the high beam always on, in short rides for a period of a month or so (had an operation and some stitches so had to be carefull-couldn't stop riding though), so I guess this drained the battery eventually and gave me this bad moment.
The bike is Ok after a recharge, but I have this underlying fear that the battery will drain again, but I hope I'll get over it.
Thanx for your posts, helped a lot!
Kalosorises patrida.
Put it on the Battery Tender every time you ride. Not a battery charger. The Battery Tender stops charging once the voltage reaches 12.5.
For the past 2 years I have read several threads about the implied shortcomings of the battery and charging system. It seems that whenever there is an issue of a battery going flat or the addition of load to the electrical system, one of the common replies is to “ride the bike for a while with the engine revving above 5000 rpm because it doesn’t start charging until this speed”. I have to assume that this is based on the alternator specification in the service manual: 14 V/310 W at 5,000 r/min. I had my doubts as to whether this was an accurate statement, and decided to measure the output.
First of all, it should be noted that the FZ6 has a standard 3-phase alternator with NO rotor current control circuitry. In other words, it will generate voltage across the output terminals as soon as it begins rotating, increasing with speed, as it uses permanent magnets in the rotor. In addition, the regulator/rectifier module is an external package, mounted just below and to the left of the rear fuel tank mount. This allowed for easy access to make measurements.
I began by leaving the lights and 4-way flasher on for about ˝ hour to create some drain on the battery as I have the dual headlight mod. Voltage dropped from 12.2 V to 11.0 V. After splicing in a shunt between the positive terminal of the regulator and the lead going towards the rest of the system I started the engine. The attached chart shows a graphical display of the measured values listed here:
After gathering this info, I hooked up an additional ammeter at the main fuse block to monitor system usage. Following the same approach as before, I measured both positive and negative current flow consistent with the rpm points listed above. The point of no charge was about 1400 RPM, with battery drain below this speed and charging current above. The maximum positive charging current measured was 4A @ >2000 RPM, as the regulator was showing an output of 22A. I didn’t let this run for more than 5 minutes so I never reached a point where the battery would reach a full charge state.
My data leads me to the following conclusions:
1- The alternator/regulator package produces it’s full rated value of 310W (22A x 14V) at 2200 RPM and this value never increases with engine speeds above this point. So, the advice to “keep it revved up or it will never charge” is misguided. Just normal engine speeds are enough to get full charging potential.
2- As I stated, I have the dual headlight mod. With this, my bike draws a consistent 18 amps under steady operation. Of course, as brakes are applied or turn signals are activated, this load momentarily increases above 18A to a discharge condition. I am confidant that the normal total electrical draw is just under the system limits, which is why I haven’t had a problem with a battery discharging. I did have a regulator fail when the bike was under warranty, but no problems since.
3- The numbers don’t lie: I don’t believe that this electrical system can handle more that an additional 40-45W of constant current draw without eventually discharging the battery. Momentary use is one thing but with a battery capacity of only 10 A/H there is very little headroom. The effects of this can be masked/minimized by hooking the battery up to a charger on a regular basis, but you will not be able to maintain charge by running the engine unless:
total system demand<charging potential
??? amps<22 amps
I hope this is helpful to some of you as I spent some time debating whether or not to get involved in the discussion. Comments or questions, just fire away..
Please note that the test was done on a "charged battery" with enough "CCA".
These figures only contains the alternator's capacity and does not include how much the battery is actually charging and at what charge it is keeping. If you use more accessories at these RPMs, the battery will receive less charge or discharge due to the fact that the alternator/battery system must satisfy the power demands before it feeds charge to the battery.
Please note that the test was done on a "charged battery" with enough "CCA".
These figures only contains the alternator's capacity and does not include how much the battery is actually charging and at what charge it is keeping. If you use more accessories at these RPMs, the battery will receive less charge or discharge due to the fact that the alternator/battery system must satisfy the power demands before it feeds charge to the battery.
If you read closely you'll see that this DOES include the amount going to the battery in the paragraph after the alternator data. The operational requirements of the EFI, meter, ECU, lights, etc. while my FZ running is 18A. When engine speed falls below ~1400 RPM, the alternator doesn't supply enough current and the battery discharges the needed power to keep the bike running. Above this speed the alternator supplies more current than needed to run the electrical system and the excess capacity goes towards battery charging, up to a maximum of 4A @2200 RPM.
It does not matter what the state of battery charge is, there is only so much available to do this task and the running electrical system will always take priority. Once the battery voltage approaches 13-14V the regulator will simply taper off from full output (22A) to 18A and dump the excess as heat from the regulator heatsink.
Again, bottom line is there is only 22A MAXIMUM alternator output. What it goes to depends on load. Additonal lighting, heated grips, etc. all add up.
__________________
John
"I was too drunk to walk home so I drove."
-Unknown
The maximum positive charging current measured was 4A @ >2000 RPM, as the regulator was showing an output of 22A.
My data leads me to the following conclusions:
1- The alternator/regulator package produces it’s full rated value of 310W (22A x 14V) at 2200 RPM and this value never increases with engine speeds above this point. So, the advice to “keep it revved up or it will never charge” is misguided. Just normal engine speeds are enough to get full charging potential.
2- As I stated, I have the dual headlight mod. With this, my bike draws a consistent 18 amps under steady operation.
3- The numbers don’t lie: I don’t believe that this electrical system can handle more that an additional 40-45W of constant current draw without eventually discharging the battery. Momentary use is one thing but with a battery capacity of only 10 A/H there is very little headroom. The effects of this can be masked/minimized by hooking the battery up to a charger on a regular basis, but you will not be able to maintain charge by running the engine unless:
total system demand<charging potential
??? amps<22 amps
Hey John,
Thanks for doing the test for us to benefit.
I want to know how much power is available for accessories under stock conditions. I don't have a dual-light mod - just a stock setup. Have I interpretted your data correctly, as it might pertain to us "stock" guys:
a) Minimum demand taken by FZ6 while running with stock setup (low beam):
12.2V, 15A = 183 W
b) Charging capacity of alternator above 2200 rpm:
14.0V, 22A = 308 W
c) Thus, power available to accessories:
308 - 183 = 125 W
d) Thus, current available to accessories:
(125 W) / (14.0 V) = 9 A
Note, this is not consistent with your #3 conclusions, which would suggest for a stock bike:
e) (45 W) + ((18-15 A) * (14 V) = 87 W .. (Compare with my #c)
If you read closely you'll see that this DOES include the amount going to the battery in the paragraph after the alternator data. The operational requirements of the EFI, meter, ECU, lights, etc. while my FZ running is 18A. When engine speed falls below ~1400 RPM, the alternator doesn't supply enough current and the battery discharges the needed power to keep the bike running. Above this speed the alternator supplies more current than needed to run the electrical system and the excess capacity goes towards battery charging, up to a maximum of 4A @2200 RPM.
It does not matter what the state of battery charge is, there is only so much available to do this task and the running electrical system will always take priority. Once the battery voltage approaches 13-14V the regulator will simply taper off from full output (22A) to 18A and dump the excess as heat from the regulator heatsink.
Again, bottom line is there is only 22A MAXIMUM alternator output. What it goes to depends on load. Additonal lighting, heated grips, etc. all add up.
I'm thinking that the system can actually put out more if more load demand is added. Current supply is also dependent on current load demand. The system will not produce more if no more is needed. If you add load and do your test again, you will see a rise in the current amps output maybe even above 310W at 5k RPM.
I am in partial agreement. With a ligher load, the alternator will develop less physical resistance and it will be easier to turn - thus unburdening the engine load a bit.
However, the alternator is rated for 310 W (reportedly), so this would be the max output.
Linear Mode
