Need woman advice...

[dparadis]

OK! Here it goes..

I have been separated for over 18 months. Have two young kids (5 and 8). Since my separation, I have been extremely weary of introducing a new woman to my kids. I have met a few but never the right so the kids never knew.

Three months ago, I met this girl whom I am really starting to like and am developping strong feelings for. She has been separated for over three years, has a 9 year old girl, has had other men in her life after that and one very bad experience (i.e broken hart).

Like me, she has a calm disposition, is well grounded and enjoyable to be around.

She was the first to suggest an activity with our three kids which to me suggested a huge step forward, if not a kind of commitment. We have repeated the activity a few times, enough that my 5 year old is really starting lo like her. In fact, what we have is three nice kids who get slong well and who also relate well with the two adults.

We have been intimate along the way and the chemistry was definitely there.

BUT...

I have noticed a kind of melancholy about her, a trait that vanishes whenever she smiles, at which point, she truly lights up a room. She is into music, the same kind as me, and frankly, I have rarely met a woman who likes music and who will of her own volition, listen to Aerosmith while driving to work (even though that's my problem, it's make her so much more attrative to me). She also enjoys Lounge type music like I do.

What is bugging me is despite the fact that she sometimes calls to plan activities, she is never the one to intiate a kiss, a hug or an embrace. She is kind of reluctant on that front.

I finally mentioned that to her over the phone this last Sunday night. I told her that I felt ill at ease since I sensed a hesitancy about her manners.

That's when she told me she had met someone over the summer. A married man with a family and they both really connected well. They had an affair for a few weeks and ended it. Not long before I met her, he called her to inform her he was leaving his wife. This gave her hope. A week later, he informed her that he could not face the separation with his wife and he had decided to give his marriage a second try. He was gonna try and save his marriage. I came in after that.

So that's what she told me. Basically telling me that she still had this man "under her skin". She was quite open about it to me and I welcomed and thanked her for her honesty. We, as usual, talked for over an hour, time flew and we had difficulty ending the conversation. It is always like that when I am with her. Even on days when she works, she will leave my home quite late, prefering it seems to be with me, than going home. She told me that she enjoys being with me, enjoys my company and I feel the same way about her, if not more.

Not all our encounters are sexual. We had a particularly nice afternoon, just watching a movie in front of the fireplace, cuddled up under a blanket. One of those just being well together moment.

So anyways... We left it at that, saying that we would both give it some thought and revert to see what the next course of action will be. That's where we are now; in the thinking-it-out period.

On my side, I wouldn't mind continuing the relationship on a somewhat more friendly , less relationship oriented manner and seeing what develops from there. I really like her and don't have any problems whatsoever thinking of her as my next mate, thinking of a vacation with her and the kids, etc.. You know, the usual scenarios and "would-I-do-this-and-that-with-her?" questions. They all come back with resounding YESSES!

As for her, I'm thinking the option is for her to remain alone, awaiting the possibility that this man's attempt to save his marriage fails. He is probably 3 to 6 months away from knowing if his marriage saving attemps will be succesful or not, following which another 6 to 12 months to clean up his new life to be ready for a new relationship.

In the meantime, there is a distinct possibility that she could develop stronger feelings! Right? ... RIGHT!?!

And I have known this feeling of being hopelessly in love with another person. I know that it does go away. That you do forget (kind of).

All I know for now is that a continuation with her will preclude the inclusion of my kids. I will go at it alone.

***
So my question is:

How do I play it?

Should I be independant and not call her back.. Let her worry about the fact that she might be losing me and force something from her.

Should I tell her what i just told you; that I am willing to continue as "friends" and risk coming across as a wuss? (BTW I am a wuss. Playing independant will be difficult as I might just be in love...

So there you go.

I like the anonymity here but mostly, I know I might just get some very good advice.

Thank you for reading through!!!

[fraggle1]

Personally, I'd keep her as a friend, but no more than that. Start looking elsewhere for a relationship. It's not about "forcing" something from her. It's about doing what's right for you and your kids. First, she got involved with a married guy. Not necessarily evil on her part, but it gives a bit of a clue about her respect for marriages/relationships in general.

Also, it sounds like she's at a point where she's waiting for the married guy to make a decision. It sounds kinda dramatic, but she has basically given up the power over this aspect of her own life. By waiting around for her, you'd be hooking yourself up to that powerless situation. Not the best foundation for a good long-term relationship, waiting for someone else to decide whether or not you two can get together.

Anyway, that's my $.02, not knowing either of you. Good luck!

[hanglowejohnson]

^ good post

[malik ross]

let her go. its not fair to you or your kids to be in involved with this woman when she is still involved with someone else.

and she involved with him. she may not still be seeing him but she is still thinking about him. she is/was with you becuase things between them didn't/haven't worked out. as soon as thinks that door might open again she'll walk out your and through his.

no friends. yes, you have lots of common interests and get along well but ultimately you are with her because you want a romantic relationship, not becuase you wnat a buddy to come over, drink beer and listen to music. you've admitted you are a wuss which means more than likely you put yourself in a situation that is not to your advantage. she may not do it on purpose but if she is on the fence between you and another man you'll be taken advantage of.

put the ball in her court. tell her you aren't going to play second best. you are not going to be the also-ran.; tell her you want to be with her and no one else and if shes not ready to do the same she needs to let you go so you can find someone who does.

[Twisted Sister]

Originally Posted by malik ross

let her go. its not fair to you or your kids to be in involved with this woman when she is still involved with someone else.

and she involved with him. she may not still be seeing him but she is still thinking about him. she is/was with you becuase things between them didn't/haven't worked out. as soon as thinks that door might open again she'll walk out your and through his.

no friends. yes, you have lots of common interests and get along well but ultimately you are with her because you want a romantic relationship, not becuase you wnat a buddy to come over, drink beer and listen to music. you've admitted you are a wuss which means more than likely you put yourself in a situation that is not to your advantage. she may not do it on purpose but if she is on the fence between you and another man you'll be taken advantage of.

put the ball in her court. tell her you aren't going to play second best. you are not going to be the also-ran.; tell her you want to be with her and no one else and if shes not ready to do the same she needs to let you go so you can find someone who does.

I concur

[snigg]

Originally Posted by malik ross

put the ball in her court. tell her you aren't going to play second best. you are not going to be the also-ran.; tell her you want to be with her and no one else and if shes not ready to do the same she needs to let you go so you can find someone who does.

i agree.

[malik ross]

Originally Posted by malik ross

put the ball in her court. tell her you aren't going to play second best. you are not going to be the also-ran.; tell her you want to be with her and no one else and if shes not ready to do the same she needs to let you go so you can find someone who does.

be sure to make Lawson proud and shag her in the can first.

unless you already have.

have you?

?

[ASCI_Blue]

Hm..married people are different than single people so maybe the whole upfront thing might actually work. Either way do not call her, see if she calls you back.

[BooRidesSB]

Ok. You sound serious. I'll take a shot. Warning! Long reply.
You are very brave to post that message! Your bio says you are 39. My daughter is 35. My son is 29.
So from my perspective I'll offer some thoughts.
What's my perspective?
Married 1963. Divorced 1973. Remarried same woman 1974 after a year of living separately. Yes, other women. Second marriage to same woman stuck. Still married. Two children - daughter from first marriage, son from second. Now three granddaughters, one grandson. Not suggesting you do the same. Just my perspective.
Separated 18 months? “Extremely weary.” Known her three months. That sounds desperate. Back off. Three months is not enough time. Don't push it. Give it time.
You don't say you are divorced. If you are not conclusively divorced then you should get it done. Otherwise you are just playing games and there are no winners.
If you are divorced – not just separated – is this your first “serious” friendship? One choice is not enough. You need more experience. Is she also divorced? Or simply separated? This matters.
Affair with a married man - "under her skin". Whoa! You are already in deep. She’s not. Yellow flag. You see it. It's not an automatic black flag, but often is, it really takes time to get over - sort out. You gotta wonder about her head. What's she looking for? She has a lot to work out. She could develop stronger feelings? Yep.
You never forget. But you do get over it. At some point you say, “Ok, let’s move on.”
“…she is never the one to intiate a kiss, a hug or an embrace.” Just my observation, but, once they have children they are less inclined to jump ya. JMHO
The kids? Don't leave them out. They will know what's going on. Kids know. Keep them in the loop. If you want their trust when they are 16 start now. That doesn't mean give them a lecture. Just answer their questions truthfully when they ask.
Don't play games by being "independent" or adopting any attitude other than just being yourself - truthful to yourself, your children, her, and her child. Jeez! You are considering your life! You are not a wuss for feeling "in love" - otherwise wtf?
How do you play it? Don't play it. Work it. Not only your relationship with her. How will each of you enable your respective children to maintain healthy relationships with both of their respective parents? Look ahead while you are working out your personal relationship with her. Your forthcoming manner will apply all the pressure needed.
Work on the relationship honestly with all parties included - read "kids". You will have to expose yourself to do this. You could be hurt. But, you could be rewarded with a great life with someone who cares and is committed. You could nail it this time!
Is she working to sort herself out and build an honest relationship with you?
It takes time to know. Three months is not enough. Keep thinking it out. Keep everyone in the loop.
Good luck!

[skeleton]

I am with fraggle1 on this.

I might add that I find it best to be my own person - sorta like "ride your own ride". To this point, I prefer to not use manipulations (ie: don't caller her to make her miss ya). Instead, I find it works better to pursue my heart, and be upfront. Then make your own judgements to either stay or move on.

[FZ6nIT]

D., Outcomes in these situations are never fully predicatable. Sounds to me like you're asking yourself (and this other person) all the right questions.

Protect your kids' world, above all else. Next focus to the greatest extent on the facts of the situation. [This is VERY difficult, from my experience... but sounds as though you're doing a good job of this]. Try to make rational decisions based upon the facts. Try to avoid saying things or taking actions (esp. negative ones) which are based on ego-driven, or emotional content.

It is great that she's been honest w. you about this other relationship she has w. the married guy, (shows that she has some respect for you, and some dignity, & basic morality ) but one must be guarded with one's emotional attachment to a person who allows herself to get involved with a married man. That sort of thing can only lead to future difficulties. She should know better. Best of Luck w. the situation, or (meanwhile?) finding a nice new chick who also likes the Metal.

[bush]

Three months isn't a long time. Let things take their own course. If it's meant to be, it will work out, otherwise there's no reason to let emotion take over and get involved in something that you or your kids might not be happy with in the long run.

[dparadis]

Whoooaaa...

What can I say? Thanks all for the responses..

Most of what I've read (here and on the FZ6 portion of SBN) makes a lot of sense. (Well not all - "once they have children they are less inclined to jump ya."!!! Nah. That one doesn't work for me ) There is a certain level a hip giration that simply cannot be faked...

"...my advice would be to play it cool. It's been my experience that women prefer a little challenge, so being aloof and playing hard to get will get you much farther than smothering or even just laying everything out there. They don't appreciate the honesty as much as most guys would. At the same time, you have to keep her on the hook so to speak." from JAXE FIZZER somehow resonates with me.

I do believe in seduction being a kind of ritual that can be managed and whose outcome can be influenced - not controlled. I do not mean any of what I say as a game, even though I used words such as 'play'. But isn't it kind of a game? Shouldn't it be fun, challenging, unsettling?!?

And I have had enough (not many) but enough women friends to understand that the level of strategy and scenario analysis and reliving of a date and the telling of a date to friends that they go thru simply does not compare to anything that any man will ever understand. I dunno. I feel that above all else, a man must be interesting. Maybe this is not your father's Oldsmobile or something. I feel Machiavelian writing this but I feel that being honest about it is only gonna make me really [YAWNN..] ZZZzzzzzzzz..., boring!

So there you go. Even though I am 3 and 2, I have somehow decided I am not giving up! [Start Chariots of Fire music here...] That's right!!! Anything that's worth having is worth fighting for!!! (As well as any other lame popular motivational expression you can think of... )

I could walk away now and be hurt or give it another chance and then be hurt...

So to recap:

- I will not hook-up with a powerless situation;
- I will not play second-best;
- I will keep my kids at bay;
- I will not make the first call (tough one...);
- I will continue to date other women (I'll just pickup the old black book *Coughs*! Yeah. That's it!!!).

Who knows, I might just nail it this time!

As far as a Lawson goes, will definitely attempt it first chance I get!

[vtimm]

Originally Posted by dparadis

"...my advice would be to play it cool. It's been my experience that women prefer a little challenge, so being aloof and playing hard to get will get you much farther than smothering or even just laying everything out there. They don't appreciate the honesty as much as most guys would. At the same time, you have to keep her on the hook so to speak." from JAXE FIZZER somehow resonates with me.



I could walk away now and be hurt or give it another chance and then be hurt...

So to recap:

- I will not hook-up with a powerless situation;
- I will not play second-best;
- I will keep my kids at bay;
- I will not make the first call (tough one...);
- I will continue to date other women (I'll just pickup the old black book *Coughs*! Yeah. That's it!!!).

Sounds to me like you've made the right decision. The most important thing for you because you're a father is to protect your children. Be sure to communicate with them. Kids are far more preceptive than people think - they usually know what's going on before being told. The second most important thing for you is to truly never allow yourself to be second best, and that's to anyone OR anything (work or hobby).

As for the whole game playing thing - don't do it. Despite what others may have said, it's not a game and honesty is the best policy. (Women appreciate honesty just as much as men do.) Playing hard to get won't make her suddenly desire to be with you. She will either want to be with you or she won't, and there's no guarantee that won't change. It would be nice if there were certainties in love, but unfortunately, there aren't. The best thing you can do is just be yourself and be happy with yourself. You can't get happiness from someone else.

Good luck - we're always here for you.