Issues with CCS management

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Originally Posted by badgixxer

okay well apparently you're the public relations officer for CCS so you're not going to listen to what i'm saying and you're just gonna continue to find someplace other than CCS to place the blame....

so good luck with your racing with CCS...i for one will never race with them again...

I don't work for CCS in any way, I'm just sick of hearing so much complaining about them when it represents a minimal portion of CCS's efforts to hold racing events for regional racers thruout the USA. Figuring there are 5000+ racers thruout the country competing with CCS, it's a major undertaking to keep every single aspect of everything perfect, it's not like AMA PRO road racing where they only a few hundred racer for the whole country. The AMA runs only a few classes per event and only has about a dozen or so events a season. CCS has over 20 individual classes per event with 60 events currently on the schedule for '06, that's over 1200 individual races they have to keep track of multiplied by the number of individual racers in each of those 1200+ races. On top of that they have to do all the record keeping for each individual racer, all the logistics of running the individual events, plus deal with constant ridicule for minor stuff.

I'm open to listening to what your saying, I just didn't realize that by me responding to things you have said that it was interpretted as 'not listening'? I look at the running of CCS from a business aspect and the lack of respect they get for making a damn good effort for what they have had to work with just pisses me off! Overall they put on some great racing events, sure things get messed up sometimes, but where doesn't that happen with any large organization? My comments about contingency sponsers not contacting CCS about results in my opinion shows a lack of responsibility by the sponser, if they truely were interested in being involved they should have just made a call and the problem probably would have been fixed. Maybe there was a problem with results getting to CCS from the affiliate running your region? Maybe there was an address change that didn't get relayed? It seems rather ironic that only 1 contingency sponser seems to be listed as being a problem, if it was a CCS problem I would think that none of the sponsers would have been recieving the results from your region.

I'm not trying to argue here, I just see this happen in my own job so often where the wrong people are blamed for things they may not have been at fault over at all. This becomes a basis for future blame and is totally F'ed UP! Until you guys make an effort to chase down what the actual problem is all this finger pointing is somewhat blind and as I said before a witch hunt.

[Jammin_Johnny]

Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE

I don't work for CCS in any way, I'm just sick of hearing so much complaining about them when it represents a minimal portion of CCS's efforts to hold racing events for regional racers thruout the USA. Figuring there are 5000+ racers thruout the country competing with CCS, it's a major undertaking to keep every single aspect of everything perfect, it's not like AMA PRO road racing where they only a few hundred racer for the whole country. The AMA runs only a few classes per event and only has about a dozen or so events a season. CCS has over 20 individual classes per event with 60 events currently on the schedule for '06, that's over 1200 individual races they have to keep track of multiplied by the number of individual racers in each of those 1200+ races. On top of that they have to do all the record keeping for each individual racer, all the logistics of running the individual events, plus deal with constant ridicule for minor stuff.

I'm open to listening to what your saying, I just didn't realize that by me responding to things you have said that it was interpretted as 'not listening'? I look at the running of CCS from a business aspect and the lack of respect they get for making a damn good effort for what they have had to work with just pisses me off! Overall they put on some great racing events, sure things get messed up sometimes, but where doesn't that happen with any large organization? My comments about contingency sponsers not contacting CCS about results in my opinion shows a lack of responsibility by the sponser, if they truely were interested in being involved they should have just made a call and the problem probably would have been fixed. Maybe there was a problem with results getting to CCS from the affiliate running your region? Maybe there was an address change that didn't get relayed? It seems rather ironic that only 1 contingency sponser seems to be listed as being a problem, if it was a CCS problem I would think that none of the sponsers would have been recieving the results from your region.

I'm not trying to argue here, I just see this happen in my own job so often where the wrong people are blamed for things they may not have been at fault over at all. This becomes a basis for future blame and is totally F'ed UP! Until you guys make an effort to chase down what the actual problem is all this finger pointing is somewhat blind and as I said before a witch hunt.

Mike......I believe most are aware of where the problem lay. In all of the text contained in this thread, the "finger pointing" as you speak was not specifically against CCS. Just frustration in a relationship of one controlling operations of another that need not be. Please reference your thread below:

Big changes with CCS!

Things must change for the better. Apparently, this move by CCS may be that move. Just remember, things were befuddled before. What Kevin needs is everyone's support to get the ship back on course so the CCS can be what it should be.

That's All Bro

[kz2zx]

Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE

I don't work for CCS in any way, I'm just sick of hearing so much complaining about them when it represents a minimal portion of CCS's efforts to hold racing events for regional racers thruout the USA. Figuring there are 5000+ racers thruout the country competing with CCS, it's a major undertaking to keep every single aspect of everything perfect, it's not like AMA PRO road racing where they only a few hundred racer for the whole country. The AMA runs only a few classes per event and only has about a dozen or so events a season. CCS has over 20 individual classes per event with 60 events currently on the schedule for '06, that's over 1200 individual races they have to keep track of multiplied by the number of individual racers in each of those 1200+ races. On top of that they have to do all the record keeping for each individual racer, all the logistics of running the individual events, plus deal with constant ridicule for minor stuff.

Mike, the chronic understaffing and poor quality of the office staff led to the unfiled contingency. We (the club) refiled for the year with the tire manufacturers, but we wrote off Vesrah, EBC, Vortex, Sharkskinz, Hotbodies contingencies.

So, I charge CCS, as any serious organization that needs to keep track of 5000+ racers' contingencies and results and claims commitment to the racers would have taken steps to protect the racers' interests, rather than complain that the parent company wouldn't fund it.

I'm open to listening to what your saying, I just didn't realize that by me responding to things you have said that it was interpretted as 'not listening'? I look at the running of CCS from a business aspect and the lack of respect they get for making a damn good effort for what they have had to work with just pisses me off! Overall they put on some great racing events, sure things get messed up sometimes, but where doesn't that happen with any large organization?

It's a pathologically chronic behavior, repeated and predictable. You cannot begin to claim statistical anomaly (a one-time fluke) here.

My comments about contingency sponsers not contacting CCS about results in my opinion shows a lack of responsibility by the sponser, if they truely were interested in being involved they should have just made a call and the problem probably would have been fixed.

Kawasaki takes their contingency seriously. In conversation with them, I learned they expect the results of races to be sent in hardcopy, and in a timely manner, or they will refuse participation in the contingency program to the racing organization who is delinquent. I beleive every mfg will agree the onus is on the racing organization to provide the results, not the mfgr's responsibility to pull the information from the racing orgs.

FWIW, as of Dec, I don't believe Kawasaki was notified of the October ASMA race results - that was a CCS sanctioned combined race for both ASMA and CCS SW and paid Kawi mfg contingency.

Maybe there was a problem with results getting to CCS from the affiliate running your region? Maybe there was an address change that didn't get relayed? It seems rather ironic that only 1 contingency sponser seems to be listed as being a problem, if it was a CCS problem I would think that none of the sponsers would have been recieving the results from your region.

None of the other sponsors did, as I mentioned above. It's just that 80% of the racers in the club ride Michelins... Sunoco was a direct contingency (not through CCS) and they paid promptly. I know the track refiled the Michelin and Pirelli contingencies.

I'm not trying to argue here, I just see this happen in my own job so often where the wrong people are blamed for things they may not have been at fault over at all. This becomes a basis for future blame and is totally F'ed UP! Until you guys make an effort to chase down what the actual problem is all this finger pointing is somewhat blind and as I said before a witch hunt.

Abandoning the season before the final events was an uncool thing. Not sending the club the affiliate's percentage of the licensing fees until December was an uncool thing. These were one-time events that we didn't like.

Repeated behaviors that were uncool: Messing up contingency was an uncool thing. Messing up licensing and failing to issue hard-cards and issuing duplicate numbers was an uncool thing to the racers involved. Charging high gate fees was uncool - a small annoyance perhaps, but one that annoyed us all.

All of this was CCS' obligation or policy, not the affiliate's or region's.

Now, the local region (now RoadRace SW) are people we know also, and they have their share of problems, too. I sincerely hope for their sakes that Kevin Elliot can borrow enough cash to buy CCS outright, and set up a real office in an address that will be stable for more than 6 months. I hope that Kevin can afford a competent office staff. I REALLY hope that Kevin hires a professional program manager who can categorize, collate, and honor all the commitments that the organization makes, and enforce timliness and accuracy in their obligations (such as contingency).

Yes, 5000+ racers and 8 or so affiliates, and many events in a month is a lot to try to keep track of. This is why it demands a professionalism and approach that I haven't seen from Kevin - and this time around there won't be CCE. If Kevin is the authority, Kevin has the responsibility. This year, I will watch CCS from outside.

I'm racing with ASMA and AFM this year. You may want chide me for not supporting the local race scene with RRSW (the CCS affiliate in Phoenix), but I detest the Firebird tracks intensely, the RRSW dates don't really work for me in Vegas, and I'm already at the Arroyo track 12 weekends a year.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

That was the kind of intelligent response I was looking for, it described what happened as you know it and more explains the situation. Thank you for that.

Originally Posted by kz2zx

Now, the local region (now RoadRace SW) are people we know also, and they have their share of problems, too. I sincerely hope for their sakes that Kevin Elliot can borrow enough cash to buy CCS outright, and set up a real office in an address that will be stable for more than 6 months. I hope that Kevin can afford a competent office staff. I REALLY hope that Kevin hires a professional program manager who can categorize, collate, and honor all the commitments that the organization makes, and enforce timliness and accuracy in their obligations (such as contingency).

Yes, 5000+ racers and 8 or so affiliates, and many events in a month is a lot to try to keep track of. This is why it demands a professionalism and approach that I haven't seen from Kevin - and this time around there won't be CCE. If Kevin is the authority, Kevin has the responsibility. This year, I will watch CCS from outside.

If you read the other subject I have about 'Big changes with CCS' you will see that the buyout from CCE has already happened and they are already in their new office, that ONE single office will handle the ENTIRE workings of CCS from now on. If you also check you will see that the CCE sponsered website that handled CCS up till now is gone, the new CCS website is up and running and mentions that the 'NEW' CCS will use the K.I.S.S. principle and handle things much more efficiently. I also read that Track Addixx (who will run the Great Plaines region for CCS) sought affiliation with CCS and has already agreed to who will be in charge of what concerning that region and who will run the combined events with other CCS regions. There is definately an effort to do what is required to make sure this affiliation works based on correcting things that didn't work in the past, sadly your region was one that obviously failed tremendously. As I said before, I look forward to the '06 race season with CCS, I believe the new 'unparented' CCS will be much better as an independent entity with the ASRA as it's national series. Hopefully things will improve for your region as well, even though you guys won't be following it.

[badgixxer]

Originally Posted by GSXR RACER MIKE

That was the kind of intelligent response I was looking for

damn just call me stoopid why don't ya...

we're racers not members of the debate society or mensa

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Originally Posted by badgixxer

damn just call me stoopid why don't ya...

we're racers not members of the debate society or mensa

Certainly not intended that way, I'm someone who likes to hear the cause, not the result. The complaining was the result, I wasn't seeing a whole lot of info as to the actual cause. His response was more about the 'cause' than the previous posts which were basically focused on bashing CCS. No insult intended.

[Napalm]

Dammit, i just got the popcorn ready and it seems like the debate is at an end....

[Sometime Racer]

I believe Kevin is really devoted to the program and trying to run things right, but, speaking as a promoter who runs a motorcycle series, a drag racing series, sports cars and motorcycle trackdays, along with a racetrack, doing vinyl lettering and signs, body and paint work etc...... It doesn't take that long to process contingencies. It doesn't take very long to process license applications. It doesn't take much to respond to emails and phone calls. I know for a fact it only takes a few minutes to process a license. I know for a fact it only takes around two hours for our organization to process contingencies. I know for a fact I it isn't hard to run an event if you've got a little experience. I know for a fact it isn't alot of trouble to keep in touch with your racers enough to know of the problems with your organization. I know for a fact all of the contingency turned in for the first half of the year was wrong and I was told, more than once, it had been corrected. I know for a fact that the mfg's didn't recieve any more contingency papers from CCS from July to December. That's quite a timeframe isn't it? Don't worry, most of MY emails and phone calls went unanswered most of the year too. Imagine that, a new affiliate and they wouldn't answer my calls or questions....just like they wouldn't answer or return calls from racers. I seriously don't think Kevin was at fault here, other than not ever being in the office, managing his staff. Every time I got ahold of Kevin things actually happened.

That said, I believe it was a staffing issue, not a CCE issue. When the people in the office aren't doing their jobs, we all suffer. Even worse, most of the time people weren't in their office, they were flying off to races all over the country. Now I ask you, if your paperwork is overflowing and there's cash flow problems, why on earth would you send your employee's all over the country, paying for flights, rental cars, hotels etc..? Why would you send four times more license applications than needed? Why would you send 10 times more shirts than needed? Why would you send everything next day air? (a little planning would cut shipping expenses tremendously) It is a management problem. I sincerely hope Kevin will right the ship, without CCS there's a bunch less racers in the USA.

[badgixxer]

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

There is indeed new staff at CCS, I know there is alot of confidence by Kevin that the new guy (in charge of keeping the things your complaining about in order) will get the job done. After reading more about your situation down there I feel for you guys, but I also realize that you guys are probably going to have to write off what happened up till now with the old CCS if you want to move forward. It sounds like the contingency thing is being handled, just not in the way it should have been, but never the less it looks like it's getting done afterall from what someone mentioned. I can understand you guys not wanting to continue with CCS based on past experience, but I also know that since '96 CCS only had 2 mistakes with my pre-registration and the 1 previous problem with contingency that turned out to be the sponsers problem in the end. My phone calls to CCS have always been handled immediately and with good results, though I will admit that E-mails in the past went unanswered, the ones that I have sent recently were responded to within a couple days. I will say that if you just call or write with a bitch session that it's probably going to go no where.

I'm curious what the local affiliate for you guys was doing to solve the problems in '05? I would think that much of this would fall on their shoulders as being responsible to handle the problems you encountered and act as a representative of your region. I know that the Great Lakes region disappeared after an affiliation went bad with Fasttrax to run that region. The big thing that happened there was the differences in classes that were run and the power struggle between who would run combined events. If you look at the new affiliation with Track Addixx and the '06 schedule you will see that it has already been decided ahead of time who will run the combined events, CCS for Road America, and Track Addixx for Mid-America Motorplex (listed right on the schedule). I know that our race director here in the Midwest is constantly communicating with CCS during the season and he listens to what you have to say (if your civil about it) and will truely try and get things resolved. I'm certainly not saying that your regions operational staff didn't do their part, I'm asking if you know if they truely made an effort on your behalf to fix the problem or if they just left it in CCS's hands to fix?

It seems as though the complaining from your region is focused on contingency and paperwork, but there hasn't been any mention if the races put on were still good? I mean after all, isn't racing what this is all about in the 1st place? There are many of us Experts who would like to see Amateur contingency and purse money done away with and transfered to the Expert ranks anyways, Amateurs recieving paybacks is a great way to handicap this sport from becoming anything since it takes away from those who try and last in this sport more than the average 2-3 seasons that has become the standard now. The lame arguement that the new racers need monetary help to get going is the biggest load of crap I have heard. Do Amateurs seriously think that Experts can magically race for less money? It costs Experts more money to race than Amateurs due to the level of competition being that much stronger and the constant need for new tires. So hearing complaining about Amateur contingency payouts strikes an even deeper cord with me and many other Experts, for those who are not Expert yet you'll have an awakening when you go Expert and don't get those nice juicy perks regularly anymore. For the Amateurs be glad your getting anything because when you go Expert those payouts will be less often due to the level of competition your competing against and the lack of decent payouts due to money being funnelled to the Amateurs, but that's a whole different subject in itself and a very sore subject with many Experts!

Either way what happened is in the past, even though it was the recent past, hopefully last season will be used as a learning experience and a stepping stone to improve the quality of your region for '06. I continue to support CCS and the majority of what they do, which is put on great racing events.

[kz2zx]

Wow.

Let's start by having a Moderator/Admin cut out the shift in topic and start a new thread on "Should Amateur contingency be paid?". This thread's about CCS' mismanagement.

Okay. I think your position as "unofficial apologist" needs to be grounded in a little more reality. It ain't the way you seem to think it is...... Mike, I think you need to know that Sometime Racer is the Arroyo Seco Raceway owner and ASMA president, the person who negotiated the affiliation with CCS, the person who conducted the races, and the person who filed the contingency paper and sent it to CCS.

Our events were run perfectly despite CCS' presence because the track ran the races, not CCS. The electronic scoring wasn't present for the second combined event but we had manual scoring in place. This is a success purely because the track is well run.

Telling us it'll be better this year is irrelevant, we're not affiliated with CCS this year. We'll watch and see if Kevin can fix his issues.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Originally Posted by kz2zx

Wow.

Let's start by having a Moderator/Admin cut out the shift in topic and start a new thread on "Should Amateur contingency be paid?". This thread's about CCS' mismanagement.

Ummm, this topic was about "CCS race coming to my town" which was started by someone who lives right near the now being built Hastings track which will host 2 CCS events in '06. It was the guys from your region that started the whole CCS bashing and whine fest.


Even though you guys were the ones who changed the topic from it's original topic, I still appreciate that you identified the individual who gave all the previous info, that gives some background as to his opinion, thanks!