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Old 06-28-2008, 06:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy BIG Problem with 99 CBR 600F4 - HELP!!

hey everybody...new guy here...got a 99 cbr 600f4 last year....27000 miles but really clean and well maintained....ride every weekend...not far...maybe 25 miles or so at a time...never had a problem until today...was down-shifting coming to a light and all of the sudden I get this backfire and now a VERY LOUD popping noise coming from front of engine !! like a super loud pop-corn maker!! WTF !!! ...right uner the handle bars...lost all power...feels like compression's gone...started to pull off and get the loud noise constantly...backfires when i pull the clutch...thankfully I was close to home so I babied it home at about 5 mph and shut it down...called a dealer and the service guy says it might be the exhaust header separating from the head ??!! but of course "I need to bring it in so they can look at it"...not convienient right now...anyone have any idea before I start to take the ferrings and everything off to investigate ? NEED HELP !!
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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First thought is header leak. Hard to tell without hearing it. Running it like that isn't a good idea.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
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good news maybe ??

i took the lower and upper fairings off last night and the header looks good, no cracks, no loose bolts , etc.

so i started it up and the loud popping noise seems to be coming from the upper right hand side up under the front of the gas tank...i cant see exactly where it''s from, but it feels like there''s a small rubber hose connected to it because the hose jumps big time along with the noise.

but the hose runs be behind that wire harness and has white letters on it...it runs parallel front to back...and it has some letters on it if that means anything ?? (it says TA and has 2 small up-arrows on it).

I took a pic but I dont know how to attach it ?? I can e-mail it if anyone can contact me direct at mblack614@aol.com.

Any ideas ?? I''m hoping maybe it''s something relatively minor like the CCT ???

Any help / advise is greatly apprciated....I need to my baby fixed-up and back on the road !!

THANKS !
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screaminwoody View Post
good news maybe ??

i took the lower and upper fairings off last night and the header looks good, no cracks, no loose bolts , etc.

so i started it up and the loud popping noise seems to be coming from the upper right hand side up under the front of the gas tank...i cant see exactly where it''s from, but it feels like there''s a small rubber hose connected to it because the hose jumps big time along with the noise.

but the hose runs be behind that wire harness and has white letters on it...it runs parallel front to back...and it has some letters on it if that means anything ?? (it says TA and has 2 small up-arrows on it).

I took a pic but I dont know how to attach it ?? I can e-mail it if anyone can contact me direct at mblack614@aol.com.

Any ideas ?? I''m hoping maybe it''s something relatively minor like the CCT ???

Any help / advise is greatly apprciated....I need to my baby fixed-up and back on the road !!

THANKS !
Seriously, id get it looked at by a professional. Your bike could have a serious problem and what you're describing in reference to what is disconnected is quite vague.
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wouldn't run it any more. Sounds like you have a lot of pressure developing in your motor and it popped a breather hose off. That's not good.

Wait, looking at the microfiche @ Ron Ayers, it could be a hose associated with the air injection, it's a smog thing. Maybe one of the hoses tore.

You are going to have to pull the tank and airbox to verify this though. These hoses attach to the top of the cylinder head cover.

If indeed this is it, they are only $5.21. Would be a cheap fix.
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Unhappy

Thx for the input oldschl...I really appreciate it.

Somebody else suggested it might be a broken / bent valve ??!! Either way it doesnt sound good !

That would be awesome if its a quick fix like that !

I was out of town for a week for the 4th so i just pulled the tank tonight...and I was going to pull the air box too but after i removed all of the screws i can find on top of the box (think its 9 total) the airbox still wont lift off ?? is there something i'm missing ?? feels like its still screwed on somewhere.

Anyway if I'm SUPER-lucky and that is the problem (knock wood)...what is it called ? And where do I find one ? Honda dealer ? On-line ?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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hey back again...ok so now i took the tank and airbox off to get a better look and started the bike for about 5 seconds....the loud popping noise is every other second or so and is coming from what looks like some type of a vaccum unit from the upper front of the engine...the small diameter rubber hose attached to it comes from the 1st carbuerator on the right hand side of the bike...under the carb it also has another hose attached with a t connector that goes under the carb to the engine block i think ?? ......i''ve got a picture but i cant attach the dammmm thing !!! i can e-mail to anyone who might be able to help???

the hose has small letters on it if that means anything ?? (it says TA and has 2 small up-arrows on it).

Any ideas ?? THANKS !
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Go to RonAyers.com or BikeBandit.com. Their microfiche illustrations should allow you to identify the hose. Like I said, it sounds like it may be associated with the air pump or maybe even crankcase breather.

If you can't find something on there that looks familiar, try again to upload the pics. Under 'go advanced' you'll see a button labeled 'manage attachments'. That's where you link your pictures for uploading from your computer.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Unhappy Uh-Oh...new / bigger problem ??

ok here's the latest...it just keeps getting better !!

the loud popping noise is coming from the Air injection valve but some people suggested i try the CCT first....so i put in a new APE manual CCT sunday and the AIV is stilll making that loud popping noise !!

then i heard after the fact that i shouldve made sure the engine was at TDC before i put in the CCT ? is that true ? and if so how do i do that? and if i do have to should i remove the CCT and start over to see if that helps ??

if i do that and re-install the CCT and the popping is still coming from the AIV should i replace the AIV next or take it in ? i can get one at ronayers.com for about $80 but it takes a week to 10 days to get it....one guy had mentioned that his AIV wasnt even hooked up it was blocked off and his bike runs fine.

but in the meantime there might be a new/bigger problem...i figured i'd change the plugs while i was in there...and the # 3 cylinder plug seemed a little loose so when i took it out it looks dirty but bone dry...while the other 3 plugs look a little oily/dirty/sooty...not fouled out...but used...and they're old...they're autolites...do they even make those anymore !!

so the other 3 new plugs went in no problem, but the #3 plug seems like it doesnt want to grab the threads...so now i'm wondering if the jack-ass previous owner stripped it out and just left the plug half-ass-loose ??

but the bike was running good before this popping noise so i dont think the plug was causing this timing problem...but i cant get the # 3 plug in to start it up and find out !! aaaarrrggghhh !! WTF !!

i'm going to try to thread that plug in VERY carefully tonight...if i cant is there a cheap/easy way to re-thread it without major engine work at the dealer ?? i've heard there is something called a heli-coil that i might be able to get that somehow fixes the problem...have you guys ever heard of that ??

sorry to bombard you with my problems...but man i'm bummed i cant get this straightened out and just ride my damn bike again !! its been almost 3 weeks and I'm freaking out !!

any advice would help.

thx !
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Old 07-16-2008, 01:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't worry about the CCT. If you didn't turn the motor over while the CCT was out, nothing could've changed (ie. chain jumping teeth on the sprocket).

That popping just may have been the #3 cylinder firing if the threads are f'ed-up. You can rethread the hole with a Heli-Coil for a fix, but the head should come off the engine for this. You don't want metal shavings inside your engine. I've heard of guys doing it with the head on, using grease to hold the metal chips, but I just don't trust such a move.

Autolite plugs? WTF?! I know the stock plugs are expensive, but headwork is more expensive. I've heard bad things about Autolite and Champion plugs in aluminum heads in the past, have only seen a Champion pull the threads out.

I feel for you. I'm back to thinking this may be an expensive fix.
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I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thx for the feed-back...I know frickin' autolites ?? wtf ?

I'm gonna have to bite the bulllet and take it in if that plug wont thread...I'll know tonight....I called a local shop today just in case...they've got a good rep for good work at a good prices...he said yeah it probably is that plug causing the missing/popping back through the AIV and he could heli-coil it.

I told him about how I was worried about a heli-coil without removing the head and the shavings and I guess they've got a new way where the shavings wont get into the head and do it all the time.

and they'll heli-coil the one plug hole for $ 50 since i've got it all taken apart already....and they'll pick up my bike for another $ 50...so for $100 that looks like the best route for an older used bike I guess.

plus its got alot of miles so he's going to hook me up and go throug the entire bike and make sure everything's cool for a diagnostic fee of $ 35, which will go towards repairs if needed. so its probably the best way to make sure everything's cool anyway.

if I cant thread the plug tonight they're going to pick it up friday and i'll be riding in a week (knock on wood!)...I'll let you guys know the outcome.

thanks again for all of the help !
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Unhappy Worst possible news...need a new head :(

back again...and its NOT good...couldnt get much worse actually...

so we couldn't get the # 3 plug to thread so i bit the bullet and took it in to the shop last week to have it heli-coiled...well the shop just called....and the good news is yes the loose plug was more than liklely causing the missing/popping...but the really bad news is that jack-ass previous owner stripped the frickin' threads trying to get that frickin' crap autolite plug in #3 so bad it can't be heli-coiled even if they remove the head...so guess who needs a new head ?? wtf ! thought i was gonna cry...but what-are-ya-gonna-do...it is what it is.

so the shop quoted me $1100 plus appx 10 hours labor....$1800 !!!!...wtf !!!

but he'll put my own head on if i bring one in and just charge labor....so anyone know where i can get a used head ?

i tried ebay but no luck on 99's...i can get new on ronayers.com ($695) or on mrcycles.com ($679)...but i figured its an old bike so i'm looking to go cheap at this point.

FYI: Honda P/N is 12010-MBW-000 and the bike is a 99 CBR 600 F4

also can anyone give me an idea of exactly what else i'll need as far as gaskets etc ??

thx again!

signed...so-bummed-out-i'm-damn-near-sucidal-in-michigan
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screaminwoody View Post
back again...and its NOT good...couldnt get much worse actually...

so we couldn't get the # 3 plug to thread so i bit the bullet and took it in to the shop last week to have it heli-coiled...well the shop just called....and the good news is yes the loose plug was more than liklely causing the missing/popping...but the really bad news is that jack-ass previous owner stripped the frickin' threads trying to get that frickin' crap autolite plug in #3 so bad it can't be heli-coiled even if they remove the head...so guess who needs a new head ?? wtf ! thought i was gonna cry...but what-are-ya-gonna-do...it is what it is.

so the shop quoted me $1100 plus appx 10 hours labor....$1800 !!!!...wtf !!!

but he'll put my own head on if i bring one in and just charge labor....so anyone know where i can get a used head ?

i tried ebay but no luck on 99's...i can get new on ronayers.com ($695) or on mrcycles.com ($679)...but i figured its an old bike so i'm looking to go cheap at this point.

FYI: Honda P/N is 12010-MBW-000 and the bike is a 99 CBR 600 F4

also can anyone give me an idea of exactly what else i'll need as far as gaskets etc ??

thx again!

signed...so-bummed-out-i'm-damn-near-sucidal-in-michigan
If it was me...i'd take the bike back at this point and pay my bill with the shop. Now you know what the problem is and can solve it with some elbow grease and a shop manual.

That is the solution if cash is tight. If not, pay the bill and thank them for being honest.

An F4 head should be '98-'00. In 2001 they went to the F4i. That may even have the same head. Do some research. The best way to get a good deal on ebay is to know what to search for.

Here is a 2000 head eBay Motors: 2000 CBR 600 F4 Valve Cover With Bolts Gasket and Seals (item 160261890285 end time Jul-22-08 17:45:00 PDT)

Whole motor for $1000. eBay Motors: HONDA 2000 CBR600 CBR 600 F4 CBR600F4 MOTOR ENGINE p (item 290218284428 end time Jul-26-08 12:41:13 PDT)
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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thx for the info...and yeah cash is tight these days but i'm not going to be able to R&R a cylinder head...i'm a noob rider with shade-tree mechanical skills to match...i can change plugs & oil etc but changing out a head's a little over my head...but do you think the 10 hours labor the shop wants to charge is a little high ?? i had another shop quote me 5 hours...so are they trying to hose a noob ya think ?

i've been on line looking for used/new heads all afternoon and MR cycle is still the best price for new ($679)....btw that 1 st ebay listing you sent is a valve cover not a head.
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Old 07-22-2008, 03:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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You're right, 10 hours seems like a little much. I've never had a head off, but I do know what would have to be done. The 5 hrs quote sounds more in line.

Sorry to hear this, that was my suspicion when I posted last. That plug hole would have to be pretty screwed up for them to not be able to Heli-Coil the head. To Heli-Coil, you first have to ream the hole open a little, then tap and insert the Heli-Coil insert, which would bring the thread size back to stock size.

Looks like just what you need...$99 buy it now...

eBay Motors: 2000 CBR600F4 F4 HEAD VALVES CAMSHAFTS LIFTERS (item 180252135386 end time Aug-08-08 10:55:09 PDT)


I'm not positive, but the 2000 should be the same as the '99. They probably only changed the cams.

Ron Ayers and Bike Bandit list the '99 and '00 heads as the same part.
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I go Beltway blitzin' on my mad mofo musclebike WFO. Its a true choice, a god-like experience if you will. The thought that I could buy the farm in a spectacular fireball...................well, that gives me a stiffie! Tesco Vee/The Meatmen

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