Sport Bikes banner

Is Stoner one of the greatest riders ever?

Is Casey Stoner one of the greatest GP riders ever?

29K views 274 replies 53 participants last post by  Max Deutch 
#1 ·
I took most of the info from the great article below...

CLICK HERE FOR ARTICLE

So let's talk facts...

--At age 25, he's already a premier class MotoGP champion
--he already has more premier class victories than legends Kenny Roberts, Barry Sheene, Freddie Spencer, Wayne Gardner, Wayne Rainey, and Kevin Schwantz
--he's only 4 victories shy of being even with 4 time GP champion Eddie Lawson
--the only other riders with more premier class victories are Lawson, Hailwood, Doohan, Agostini, and Rossi
--he has 27 premier class victories - Pedrosa and Lorenzo have 28 COMBINED
--he's s scored more victories during his time in MotoGP than Rossi has over that same span (27 to 26), while also notching up seven more pole positions than his nemesis (26 to 19)
--when he wins, it's typically by an extremely large margin

So, regardless of the abrasive persona, the public fights with Rossi, the constant claims of whining, the "it's the bike, not the rider" fodder, and other rumblings, you can't deny his numbers...The boy can ride, and is headed towards being one of the greatest riders the sport has ever seen...
 
See less See more
#3 ·
Absolutely he is.

I'm not personally a big fan of his, but you can't deny the way he races. Any time a guy is consistently lapping almost a full second faster than the rest of the field at several different tracks, obviously he is something special.
 
#4 ·
I don't think his personality is that bad. He's a competitive guy, they are all assholes to one extent or another. He's only abrasive compared to really laid back riders like Rossi. Compared to Lorenzo, he's a pussy cat.
 
#5 ·
Again, stats tell the tale, but I am not a fan. I could pull for him over Pedro though. I cannot bring myself to like him, but hope he heals up because I like to see tight races, not one guy running away at the front every time.

I will openly admint I thought Stoner was done for. With all the crashes and physical issues I figured he wouldn't do great this season. Totally surprised by his performance. Dovi is formidable on that Honda too...

Lots of that with JL last season, but that Catalunya race...ahhh, the memories. I don't think I have ever gotten so worked up over a sporting event.
 
#9 ·
List of MotoGP/500GP class victories/(titles). Not including other class wins. The modern era has longer seasons with more races.

Valentino ROSSI (7 titles) 79
Giacomo AGOSTINI (8 titles) 68
Mick DOOHAN (5 titles) 54
Mike HAILWOOD (4 titles) 37
Eddie LAWSON (4 titles) 31
Casey STONER (1 title) 27 and counting... :edit
Kevin SCHWANTZ (1 title) 25
Wayne RAINEY (3 titles) 24
Geoff DUKE (4 titles) 22
John SURTEES (4 titles) 22
Kenny ROBERTS (3 titles) 22
Freddie SPENCER (2 titles) 20
Barry SHEENE (2 titles) 19
Wayne GARDNER (1 title) 18
Alex CRIVILLE (1 title) 15
Jorge LORENZO (1 title) 15
Randy MAMOLA 13
Max BIAGGI 13
Dani PEDROSA 13
Phil READ (2 titles) 11
Sete GIBERNAU 9
Loris CAPIROSSI 9
Gary HOCKING (1 title) 8
Luca CADALORA 8
Kenny ROBERTS Jr. (1 title) 8
Alex BARROS 7
Umberto MASETTI (2 titles) 6
Marco LUCCHINELLI (1 title) 6
Leslie GRAHAM (1 title) 5
Wil HARTOG 5
Franco UNCINI (1 title) 5
Marco MELANDRI 5
Reg ARMSTRONG 4
Libero LIBERATI (1 title) 4
John KOCINSKI 4
Tadayuki OKADA 4
Alfredo MILANI 3
John HARTLE 3
Alberto PAGANI 3
Jack FINDLAY 3
Pat HENNEN 3
Johnny CECOTTO 3
Daryl BEATTIE 3
Norick ABE 3
Garry McCOY 3
Nicky HAYDEN (1 title) 3


I think this is pretty accurate.

Active MotoGP riders highlighted.
 
#24 ·
List of MotoGP/500GP class victories/(titles). Not including other class wins. The modern era has longer seasons with more races.

Valentino ROSSI (7 titles) 79
Giacomo AGOSTINI (8 titles) 68
Mick DOOHAN (5 titles) 54
Mike HAILWOOD (4 titles) 37
Eddie LAWSON (4 titles) 31
Casey STONER (1 title) 27 and counting... :edit
Kevin SCHWANTZ (1 title) 25
Wayne RAINEY (3 titles) 24
Geoff DUKE (4 titles) 22
John SURTEES (4 titles) 22
Kenny ROBERTS (3 titles) 22
Freddie SPENCER (2 titles) 20

I think this is pretty accurate.
JK, where'd you get your stats?...MotoGP.com has Stoner with 27 victories :confused:

motogp.com · Pedrosa doubtful for Assen as Aoyama prepares to step in

 
#10 ·
Just the fact that he gets all pissy when people follow him OR hold him up during practice is enough to make me hate this little maggot.

People have their own shit going on, trying to develop THEIR bikes- they don't have time to watch out for Stoner every fucking second of the day. I LOVED when Hayden just ignored him last weekend.

Anyways, I argue that the 800cc bikes are MUCH easier to ride than the 500cc 2-strokes. If you've never been champion on one of those, it don't matter WHAT you do- you're not the greatest of all time. Period.


EDIT- nice list, JK.... looks pretty accurate from my memory. Not to say that it IS, I just didn't see any glaring inaccuracies.
 
#14 ·
All of those stats are from the 800cc era. I think he's great, but he did it in the era of what are unanimously agreed to be the easiest bikes to ride basically ever in MotoGP. It's probably not like the 1000's next year will be any harder, with all the electronics. But, idk, I feel like it has something to do with it.
 
#35 ·
It's impossible to compare era's as everything is different.
+1 it's all about what someone does when it's their time.

too early to call him the greatest, but he is on track to be
i voted no for this reason. the guy can ride but give him a few more years before "ever" is thrown in the mix.

First, I'll say yes, on the grounds that he has won the championship once, and anyone who wins even one championship in the premier racing class of the day gets to count among the best ever.
PhilB
even nicky?
 
#16 ·
Dude- fuck stoner's slides. Everyone out there slides the bike around... they just only televise his because he's at the front.

Watch some races with Garry McCoy if you want to see sliding. Makes Stoner look like a noob.

Also, for the last time- NOBODY is saying he isn't good. We all hate him because he's a prick. There's a difference.
 
#18 ·
Define "among" the best ever. Top 20, top 10, top 5?
I don't know, I lean towards top 5. But I'll give him on the verge. Mladin always said he didn't care about the title, it was about the wins. I was a Mladin fan, but I don't know if I believe him about that. Stoner needs at least 1 more title or 2 before I give him among the best EVER. If he went the rest of his career getting more wins, but no more titles, I'd say no. I don't think that will happen BTW, he'll get his titles. Not that I'd be happy about it.

Funny, even though he didn't have close to Stoner's record, I have tons more respect for Bayliss. He was an iron man.
 
#25 ·
Yes he is.
Not really a fan as well down to how I perceive him and his personality, but his place can not be denied.
Also thought that because of it (his personality), or wished, he wold never win a title again. Been slowly eating those words this year, though it's not settled yet.

It must be infuriating to achieve success in the Rossi era. You can win the championship, Rossi can lose it for a couple of years, and you're still the #2 rider.
 
#27 ·
I'm not a fan, but I think it's undeniable how good he is.

To me, rooting for someone involves more than just race results. I'm a big Rossi fan, and have been for ages. Yes, he happens to have one hell of a record, but I just love the man. I also really like to see him in Ducati now, even though it might not be working out too well; I hope they can sort this out soon!

nico
 
#28 · (Edited)
First, I'll say yes, on the grounds that he has won the championship once, and anyone who wins even one championship in the premier racing class of the day gets to count among the best ever.

Second, I'll say yes again, in the sense that he is clearly one of the most skilled riders ever. Given an open track, he'll beat Rossi (or pretty much anyone else) on equal bikes more often than not.

Third, though, I'll say no, in that his racecraft can be lacking. He doesn't strategize well, mix it up with others, do well under pressure. Like Pedrosa, he'll win handlily if he can get clear of everyone and just ride fast with no interference from anyone else. But when it comes to planning a race, figuring out how to beat another rider who is actually contesting it with him, he's not a "best ever" candidate. That's the sort of thing where Rossi excels, what has made him champ multiple times.

And fourth, I'll say probably not, in that I don't think he has the stamina to stay in the game for years and solidify his record. Time may prove me wrong on this, but he seems too fragile to really get to the very top.

PhilB
 
#37 ·
First, I'll say yes, on the grounds that he has won the championship once, and anyone who wins even one championship in the premier racing class of the day gets to count among the best ever.

Second, I'll say yes again, in the sense that he is clearly one of the most skilled riders ever. Given an open track, he'll beat Rossi (or pretty much anyone else) on equal bikes more often than not.

Third, though, I'll say no, in that his racecraft can be lacking. He doesn't strategize well, mix it up with others, do well under pressure. Like Pedrosa, he'll win handlily if he can get clear of everyone and just ride fast with no interference from anyone else. But when it comes to planning a race, figuring out how to beat another rider who is actually contesting it with him, he's not a "best ever" candidate. That's the sort of thing where Rossi excels, what has made him champ multiple times.

And fourth, I'll say probably not, in that I don't think he has the stamina to stay in the game for years and solidify his record. Time may prove me wrong on this, but he seems to fragile to really get to the very top.

PhilB
:agree

This is why we have polls like this. Because the total tally of race wins doesn't always tell the complete story on the state of the racer.

The greatest racers are clearly more than the sum of their wins or championships. Kevin Schwantz had his #34 retired! And not from his wins tally or championship total. Casey has all those victories in MotoGP, yet is still working on (only) his second championship. He's tied in championships with many less prolific racers (i.e. Hayden). Casey is a solist who excels in the clean still air. Granted, you have to be quickest to get to that clear air, but that doesn't mean you are the strongest head to head. This area of racecraft is what holds many opinions lower of Casey, and why he cries himself to sleep at night. :cry
 
#29 ·
if he had championships in multiple classes on the world level, then i would consider him one of the greatest, that means he has to win it on the liter bike IMO. he has only won in the 800 era of bikes, possibly the easiest bikes to operate on that level.
 
#31 ·
Gotta wonder - why have a poll about a question that you establish as factually irrefutable?

Like others have said - he's great, but not likable in the slightest. Unless he's riding the brand you have a massive loyalty to, in which case it has less to do with him than a logo.
 
#32 ·
Gotta wonder - why have a poll about a question that you establish as factually irrefutable?
Well, people like to argue that he isn't great because he only wins if no one challenges him...Or he isn't great because of traction control...Or he isn't great because his bike is better than the others on the grid...Or he isn't great because he's not personable like Rossi...Or he isn't great because he had a mystery illness and didn't race...

My worthless opinion is that the boy is great, and headed towards holding the title of one of the best to ever hit the grid...His numbers are undisputable, and he's blazing fast on everything he's touched...Like him, or hate him, the boy can freakin' ride :83500
 
#33 ·
The question on the poll was not if Stoner was one of the greatest personalities in the GP ring, its if he is one of the greatest riders. And just like Nicky did it in 06, its all about the Scoreboard. So I voted yes.

Love him or hate him, everyone is out there in the electronics and new tires, etc. and he is still kick a$$. Look at the Ducati comparison with who is considered the GOAT. Stoner had that Ducati out front and Rossi can't even qualify well with it, much less race it at the front and finish.

I agree that Rossi has a better persona to him that has given him the huge fan base as well as his success on track. But Stoner, from a pure riding standpoint, has Rossi beat in the modern world.

Damian
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top