Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name
That's great, as we should, but that doesn't negate the fact that we also kill and maim them by the thousands as collateral damage.
I'm only suggesting we be honest with ourselves when it comes to how our actions appear to those who later become our enemies. We seem to have this idea that since we convince ourselves that our intentions are good, and we'll help those we can, people won't be upset when we kill by the thousands.
Honestly, how is our actions in Iraq any different than BinLadin's attacking the US. At the end of the day, thousands of innocent people are dead because one group decided it was justified in forcing it's will on another. And in reality, the islamists just want us the fuck out of their countries. We're the aggressors in this fight.
Again, I just want a spade called a spade. Shit happens in war, I can accept that, but we should at least be man enough to be honest with ourselves and not be self-apologists.
First, I don't watch TV, haven't had it in years.
Second, no, I've never been in the military, and of course that means any photos of clear torture and human rights violations never actually happen. That means the US military DIDN'T kill millions in Vietnam, DIDN'T kill thousands, if not hundreds of thousands in Iraq, DIDN'T support terrorists and dictators when it served our purposes. Only those who served have the right to comment on such issues 
Stop trying to deflect. |
Who's trying to deflect? YOU are the one that made the comment TO ME about me "coming out from my TV" and mentioned "Clint Eastwood"...
You must have short-term memory loss. I was answering your jab at me.
First and foremost...take this as you will...
If you have NOT been in the military and witnessed / participated in a combat situation, you can't possibly know what it is like.
You can stay the high and mighty road all you want...but as long as we are fighting an enemy that is more than willing to blow up civilians, strap bombs to women and children, bomb trains and crash airliners into civilian targets we will have to fight the enemy on their terms.
Theorizing and discussing foreign policy, and what should and shouldn't be done by soliders on an internet message board is one thing. Witnessing the attacks by an enemy that will stop at nothing to accomplish their goals is another. One is real life...one is not.
You can discuss the rights and wrongs all day...and one thing will never change...the enemy (in this case extremist groups that believe in the "total jihad") will do WHATEVER they have to, to try and obtain their goal. And unless you've been missing the boat for several years...by their own admission, the ONLY way the jihad is concluded is for infidels (read NON MUSLIM people) to CONVERT or DIE. Period.
Bin Laden himself said "..there are no innocents..."
You tell me...
A member of a terrorist cell is caught in the planning stages of hi-jacking several civilian airliners. You have him in custody BEFORE the operation is carried out. He will not reveal any information about the attack under normal interrogation procedures.
Let's say that all the evidence you have points to this happening in the near future.
So you are telling me, that it would not be worth it to get the information from the prisoner, regardless of methods?
So 2 weeks later when 5 aircraft went down and 1000 civilians were killed, you could look at the loved ones of those people killed and tell them "I'm sorry, but we couldn't lower ourselves to the standards of the terrorists to get the info to prevent the attacks. The ends do not justify the means."
If you could...well..you're either a liar, delusional, or you just say you would because you've never had to make that decision.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."