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Old 12-11-2007, 11:33 AM   #47 (permalink)
636blurr
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scissors View Post
Incorrect.

First, the text:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So first I'll address the asking for ID and insurance. As neither of these are a search or a seizure, the 4th amendment doesn't even apply.

As for the stop itself, this is completely legal and constitutional not only because it isn't a search or seizure, but also because the Supreme Court has ruled it constitutional as long as the random or pseudorandom selection method doesn't rely on the driver. So they could stop all cars, or just green cars, or just every fourth car, etc.

When it comes to searching the individual, this will depend on the circumstances. If the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or will soon be committed, such as the smell of alcohol on the driver's breath, then he can detain the driver (this is called a terry stop) and perform a frisk of the individual in order to ensure his own safety and the safety of those nearby. The case law for this is solid and stands up very well in court.

As for searching the car, well, they can't. Not unless certain conditions are met. If they have probable cause, a warrant, consent, or perform a search incident to arrest (very limited), or if the vehicle was impounded, or if it's crossing the nation's border then they can search the vehicle. Otherwise they may only look at whatever is in plain view; that is, what they can see without opening any part of the car.

I think you smoked to many joints in law school.
Its very clear that it limits the power of the police, PAPERS are forms of Identification, what is so fucking hard for people to understand about that?
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